LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

If the hypercar will be a v6 then safe to say that it will be just a glorified 296 then? Like the P1 which is a glorified 12C? It's quite painful to see ferrari go with the mclaren route in its hypercar(P1)

 

It would not be road legal then. Not to mention that it would be undriveable with today's power levels.

As much as the 499P is a glorified 296. Not at all, then. BTW, is the LaFerrari a glorified FF (or dare I say Purosangue...), since they both have a V12?

 

296 is garbage car?

 

ABS/ESP ≠ crap
ABS/ESP = lifesaving (especially in a vehicle that moves as fast as a Ferrari) if you were requesting those features are not on a new upcoming bicycle model I would perhaps be on the same page as you.
Not trying to incriminate you but are you on some sort of illegal chemistry?
Cause sir the last 5pages are filled with your nonsense.
You seem to lack any understanding of how a Car manufacturer operates. Laws, regulations, etc. I saw you suggested a V10 just a couple pages ago. To develop a brand new V10 engine when you have the V12s, V8s, and a brand new V6 (very capable might I add) already at your disposal. I mean you dont have to be a genius to realise how dumb that sounds.

 

The 296 is NOT a garbage car ! I was lucky enough to track a 296 a few months ago at Mugello - 25 laps later I can truly say it is a spectacular car !! However, I am not buying 1……. I’m trying to figure out why myself !!

 

296GTB is the best Ferrari in a long time.

 

You can turn most or all of the safeties off and test your skill level.


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Engine and style-wise, I expect something quite similar to the new Vision GT.

 

Yes, by comparison to other Ferrari's

 

There's nothing dumb about developing a V10. It might not be the best decision financially, but it's the best engine Ferrari ever made.

 

All those electronics add weight, that's the issue.

 

It's one of the best, certainly better than its predecessor.

That would be the 1995 F1 v12 engine (Tipo 044/1), or the 1994 Tipo 043!

Electronics add an inconsequential amount of weight, a few kilograms. Not to mention, again, that they are mandatory by law!

 

What other Ferraris?


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I have no idea what kilogram is but keep in mind there are over 100 ECUs in a modern car interconnected by wire harnesses. That's a lot of copper and insulation. If you add that giant set of batteries and massive copper cabling to the high voltage electronics and the electric motors in hybrids its just a ridiculous amount of unnecessary weight. Modern cars are way too heavy for a lot of reasons.

 

You are confusing two different things. Electric drive (heavy) and control electronics - ESP etc (light). There is a reason that modern cars have all these things though.

 

Without modern ESP, traction control etc nobody could enjoy these cars on the road, they’re just too powerful. They would become track only vehicles for all intents and purposes and that would be a bit too limiting. Sure, reduce power and get rid of the electronics. But then just go buy a 930 or a 355. No real point in remaking what the world has already done brilliantly (300-400hp with few electronics) Need to push boundaries and move forward IMO. A V6 hyper car from Ferrari would not be bad because simply it is a V6, or even a hybrid. It would be bad if it looks, sounds and especially feels bad. And I reckon it won’t.

That’s not to say the LaF won’t get a lift being the last V12 Hyper car. It’s very hard for a V6 to match the emotion and soundtrack of a V12 like the LaF possesses. My bet is that the new car will be at the same time brilliant and also affirming of what was so good about the LaFerrari. Win-win?

I’m expecting the new car to be more race-car in style, much more downforce, lighter, faster and more powerful. There’s always a market for that.

 

if they removed traction control it'd be extremely well recieved and praised for being 'raw', I'm 100% confident about this. a few people would get into accidents though for sure

but as you say, anything above 600+hp really needs it but it varies from car to car as to how much the electronics 'interefere'

I think something that ferrari are good as it making the driver unaware of what the electronics as actually doing

 

Funnily enough one can still turn it off entirely and then spin like a pro.

 

I was responding to the term 'electronics' which intentionally encompassed all that I described. Also did recognize that there are all sorts of reasons for these. However, they don't need most of the weight of where we are heading especially in the US. Too many worthless electronics. Too much unnecessary complication.

The average vehicle has 100 ECUs not because of regulations. There is no reason for a car to transmit RF. No reason for a shark fin. No reason for computer screens. The control electronics are not light when you weigh the copper harnesses to interconnect them to each other and all the sensors. Even the F12 has four large racked ECUs behind the panel where the chassis badge is located. The 812 combined them into just two but they are more than twice as heavy.

 

Beg to differ, sir. Electronics and electric drive are two totally different things.

Have you ever picked up an ECU? It weighs about 100 gramms. 100 ECUs amount to about 10 kilos. Less actually, but I will give you that. You want to count 10 more kilos for the wiring? 20 kilos all in all, then. When I was at uni, I used to drink more than that on a good weekend. Granted, it was a UK Uni, but still...

 

Those with NA engines

 

My friend I have held many hundreds of them! Likely thousands now that I think of it. Connectors are massive and the harnesses OEMs like to heat in an oven to get them flexible enough to lay the length of the chassis. And then there are the orange copper cables that run from the massive batteries under the cabin to the top of the engine on hybrids. The diameter on them is greater than the lines powering my house.

Did you know that the ECUs on some diesel trucks are cooled by the cooler fuel in the gas tank? They are driven by fuel pumps through radiators built into the massive aluminum ECU housings and then on to the engine. The point here is that most electronics are not necessary and take away from the goodness that a light and powerful sports car should be.

 

Here is another example: I worked on a project with Toyota, converting the wire harness to aluminum core in order to achieve an overall lower vehicle weight. It all adds up. A lighter vehicle can be more efficient.
Note: My involvement was to environmentally seal the exposed wire ends, where they were crimped into pins, for the connectors.

 

Once again, I was only referring to control electronics, not hybrid systems and their paraphernalia.

Which electronics do you deem unnecessary? Because I can't think of a modern car without ABS and ESP; not to mention that they are mandatory by law.

 

Really everything but intermittent wipers, ABS and airbags. We don't need:

Radar
Cameras
Auto steer
Lane change monitor
Auto park
Smart cruise control
WIFI Hot spot
Digital gauges
Bluetooth
Navigation
OTA updates
Cellular interfaces
Any kind of connectivity
Digital oil level and change calculators
Remote start
Remote door locks

and a whole bunch of extra code in all those ECUs for proprietary protocols you know nothing about.. Just to name a few.

What is nice to have but also unnecessary:

Tire TPMS display with pressure and temperature
Radio
Multi-zone AC controllers
Heated wheel and seats
Auto windows

Keep in mind that when you lock/unlock the doors or turn on your blinkers there is no +12V switching via relay. Instead there is a microcontroller acknowledging the button press and then discreet CAN bus commands sent via multiple network subnets and permissioned by firewalls. All that is way too complicated than it needs to be or ever has been.