the F40 is undervalued

ah ok. well those cars had the **** kicked out of them for years.
to me, it is all the more impressive that it made $1.6 mil.
this is a beater F40

 

Updates:

ZFFGJ34B000085308 with 5,924 miles sold for $1,988,088 https://www.classic.com/veh/1990-ferrari-f40-zffgj34b000085308-pgN3VVW/

ZFFGJ34B000089385 with 5,771 miles sold for $2,407,039 https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/mu22/munich/lots/r0056-1991-ferrari-f40/1306718

Both Eu F40s.

A couple of USA F40s coming up with 2,736 and 1,377 miles respectively.

 

The 2,736 miles USA F40 85596 which we used to own has sold for $3,250,000 https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/mi22/miami/lots/r0022-1990-ferrari-f40/1286603

 

Thanks Joe. Was that a $4m car 6 months ago?

 

it's all the money for this car. check out the carfax. it doesn't list the number of previous owners and the car has been passed around like a hot potato since paul allen sold it. 2317 miles in 2008, them it gets passed round a few times to different states/registrations and no report of miles. After leaving California in 2008 it passes through Florida, CT, Florida, Montana, and then finally in 2015 back to Florida with 2,617 miles. its the sold a bunch more times until 2020 when it showed 2673 miles. It is amazing to think about how many times this car was trucked literally from coast to coast, literally hitting all 4 corners of the country.

 

Very interesting, yes it’s sad these beautiful cars are becoming stores of value and investments that get shuffled around, not enjoyed as Enzo intended.

 

Its an odd example,almost like a stale house. You wld think a one owner paul allen well documented car wld have found better owners.

https://www.carfax.com/api/consumers/15229472/report/email/3e0ec2102ab6ba2ac34f9801d89b0666ac0957a8484d46918004c91daff32bac8331a95283dd0198?s_id=c-1%7Cp-5%7Cmt-10%7C&partnerCodeVHU_G&etId4748778

 

Not necessarily, when I change registration on my cars to a business entity in a different state it appears on carfax that the car was sold and moved out of state when in fact it stayed in my garage the entire time with me as the owner.

Considering Montana and FL are states with no to low tax on vehicles I'd bet the owner just moved it to different LLC's for tax reasons.

 

thats shady, why wld you change cars to a business entity if you are not in the car business?

 

here is the latest historical description:
Mr. Allen retained possession of the fine Ferrari for 13 years, during which time the car accrued very little mileage, reportedly displaying just 1,600 miles on the odometer when it was offered in July 2003. Choosing to upgrade to Maranello’s latest hypercar, the Enzo, Mr. Allen sold this F40 to Michael Warn of Oregon, as reflected by a title copy on file dated October 2003. In June 2007 the Ferrari was acquired by a well-known Italian supercar dealer in Laguna Niguel, California, and he had the car serviced by a marque dealership, including attention to the clutch and air conditioner. The opportunity was further taken to certify the car with a Ferrari Classiche Red Book, which attests to the continued presence of all the major matching-numbers mechanical equipment.
Sold in March 2008 to an enthusiast residing in Asheville, North Carolina, the F40 again changed hands 19 months later when it was purchased by a collector in Darien, Connecticut. In October 2011 the car passed to a Florida-based owner before being acquired by the consignor in 2019.

No activity from 2011 to 2019? i guess they didn't Carfax or google search the vin:
https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1990-ferrari-f40-4/
that was 2014

 

I think so.

At this point it's quite normal for a 32-year-old F40 to have a dozen or more ownership entries on Carfax, half or more of which are not private owners but dealers who have taken the car into inventory, ask me how I know, meanwhile if this excellent example of an F40 had just 2 entries on Carfax it wouldn't have brought a penny more IMO, given the investment-driven market we are in, assuming excellent condition, the results achieved are all about the mileage.

We have another USA F40 with 1,377 miles coming soon https://www.instagram.com/p/Cl7nTNvr_xR/

 

The paul allen car has never traded as a premium car so to say it wld have done 4 is a crock. The car has been everywhere without good explanation.

 

Incorrect, when I sold it via Private Treaty to the NC & FL-based gentlemen, it brought a premium, in fact the highest amount a USA F40 had achieved to that date, not the only Ferrari Supercar we have achieved a price record with. The previous collection sold this car only because they found an even lower mileage one.

Meanwhile, in a free market, nobody needs to justify or explain to you why cars sell, there are a million reasons why they do (in this case 3.25 million good ones) and again, perhaps you are missing or ignoring the fact I've already pointed out above that more than half the entries on that Carfax are well-known dealerships, so your theory of multiple ownership entries being the reason why this car didn't bring $4m is nonsense. This F40 has not had more private owners than most F40s extant in the USA today, I check Carfaxes for a living, so I know. Again, even if it had had just 2 owners, it would not have brought any more yesterday, I know this because absolutely nobody seeking a super-low miles F40 ever asks me how many owners has it had, it's all about original excellent condition, clean history, documentation, Classiche etc, so assuming those boxes are ticked, mileage is the primary driver of value for these.

 

After 30 yrs mileage matters less as we all know. But thats cool.

 

Maybe they want the depreciation transferred to another business entity? who know's, so may reasons why.

Just becasue carfax has entries that go from state to state does not mean the car was sold to someone else or even moved from it's physical location.

due diligence is the only way to find out

And if they are a dealer then there would not ever be a reason to transfer the title at all so that makes zero sense. As a dealer you are allowed to sell cars to people in all 50 states.

 

There is absolutely no way to track each movement with any sort of proof. For a scud one looks the other way, for an f40 i wldnt. For the auction they didn’t even reference the previous sale which was at an auction. The market isn’t dumb.

 

Sure there is, I have pulled DMV records and personally contacted the owners finding out all these details.

 

On this car? What does the file say for when it was in ny?

 

Not true for the Supercars, even 288 GTO mileage matters.

Vintage Ferraris that have been restored are another story.

Sure there is, we do this every day of the week as a matter of course, if you really want to, and have the right resources, you can find out almost anything you want.

It was there in NY with a very well known dealer, he called me to discuss the car and it's exceptional condition, plus discuss the real reason why Paul Allen sold it, a fun story unto itself which I have actually posted here on FC years ago.

 

As a collector of theses cars for near on 30 years now I find it amazing how every one changes their views and opinions.,
The fact and only facts are true today as they were 30 years ago., Mileage , owners , provenance.. it does not change, it will never change.. I would never buy a car with 14 owners .. even if it could be certified..
My buying criteria has and always will be the same.. 1-2 owners, sub 3k miles and total provenance.. if any of these boxes are not ticked , I pass and wait for the next one.. they will turn up., and these are the cars I buy.,
The brokers and dealers always tell me the same story, I need to widen my criteria as these cars do not exist ... but they do , you just need to know where to find them.

 

We can agree that mileage is still the primary driver of value for Ferrari Supercars, as values increase they have become mostly investment vehicles, I'm not where I can check my records but I remember that sold you your 288 GTO @ a decade ago, the new owner landscape in the market has evolved since then as all things do over time, and today's new buyers don't take such a negative view about a car that has had say 4 or 5 owners, so long as condition, provenance, documentation boxes are checked.

 

I agree things change over time,, but myself and every collector, I speak to all over the world, would prefer 1-2 owner car instead to say a 4 to 5 owner car.
That has not changed, and mileage is still the driving factor..
Its been 12 years now Joe and she was worth the 7 years to find her.

 

Understood, but I'm not speaking of what established collectors who already have the 1 - 2 owner cars they always wanted, I'm speaking of today's new younger buyers who are driving the current market setting current levels, they are an interesting group, and are clearly less fazed by certain criteria previously held in high esteem, that said they do also worship at the altar of low miles.

 

Agree, i avoid hot potatoes.

 

Well good for you, but unless you are a current F40 buyer, your view has negligible bearing upon the current F40 market, since you purchased your F40, the world has moved on and the market has evolved, and it's clear that the number of owners is no longer as big an issue as it used to be for the current crop of buyers so far as the other boxes are ticked, that's not a subjective opinion, it's a fact.

For example, a few months ago in August:

87041 sold for $3,965,000, check the Carfax and see how many owner entries it had. Hawaii, Washington, California, Washington (again), Montana, Florida, Montana (again), Florida, Montana (again) South Carolina. Of the 10 noted location entries, 7 are known to me to be private owners. Did the number of actual owners prevent the car from setting a world record for a USA F40? Rhetorical question.

91097 sold for $3,855,000, check the Carfax and see how many owner entries it had. California, California (again, different owner), Utah, Nevada, California (again), Nevada (again), California (yet again, at which point we sold it), Nevada (again), California, Montana, California, of the 11 noted location entries, 6 are known to me to be private owners, 1 of which shuttled the car back-and-forth between homes in Nevada and California generating multiple entries. Again, did the number of actual owners prevent the car from setting a world record for a USA F40 with over 9,000 miles? Rhetorical question again.

If you do your F40 market homework you'd know all this, if you already do, apologies for being redundant.