For Sale - F430 Spyder F1 w/issues need sale pricing help/advice | FerrariChat
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For Sale F430 Spyder F1 w/issues need sale pricing help/advice

Discussion in 'Ferraris' started by mjposner, Jan 15, 2023.

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  1. mjposner

    mjposner Karting

    Dec 1, 2021
    197
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael J Posner
    #1 mjposner, Jan 15, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2023
    My post was removed from the general section so moving over here. I inherited an F430 in November 2021. When I received the car it had a few issues, air bag light was on (due to instrument cluster repair by indie shop); top was not in like new shape (though does work fine), right side mirror was hit or bent, so it is held on in part by two red zip ties (mirror shell is fine) and interior was not perfect.

    Since I acquired I had brake fluid changed, engine mounts replaced, new air and cabin filters installed; new battery and new tires.

    A/C has stopped blowing cold, and since I work remotely and don't drive much, if I go a week between drives the check engine light comes on (car drives fine with no issues).

    Mileage is low 19k. Radio was replaced with a Pioneer DEH-X8800, I do not have original; exhaust replaced with a capristo exhaust, it also has a hard wired Kicker sub behind driver's seat (I replaced sub and had wiring repaired) and a hard wired radar detector (escort). I do not have original. I do have original seat covers and manuals.

    I will take a video and lots of pictures today.

    Looking for value feedback. Autotrader shows 62 Spyders for sale nationwide, all over $105,000 except two, a water damaged car at $85,900 and an outlier at $89,900 (though 41k miles and a wrap). Given it needs several thousand in service, what is a fair price?

    Mod edit after PM: Price is $105,000

    Car was originally imported to the middle east so wears an Arabic tag:

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    Service is up to date and Clutch was redone at 13k miles (I have most receipts in a book):

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    Car was a base model with F1 transmission (this is home made I do not have original):

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    This is interior:

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    Exterior:

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  2. mjposner

    mjposner Karting

    Dec 1, 2021
    197
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael J Posner
    #2 mjposner, Jan 15, 2023
    Videos





     
  3. mjposner

    mjposner Karting

    Dec 1, 2021
    197
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael J Posner
    #3 mjposner, Jan 15, 2023
  4. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,321
    Houston, Texas
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    Bubba
    #4 BigTex, Jan 15, 2023
    Well, hmm..

    You hit on part of the problem in the "indie shop" comment.

    But there are many Indie Shops that really know their business.
    You are going to have to actually dig in and FIX the problems in the engine management, to get anywhere near top dollar in resale.

    Or, if you just want "out", discount the values against a "no issues" car, and liquidate.
    But Ferrari buyers want to feel they have a "good" example, and as it sits there's a lot about that car that will raise questions.

    Restoring the sound system with Factory parts would get rid of a lot of issues I would guess, but perhaps not....
    It's a nice looking car from the pictures.
     
    Bullfighter likes this.
  5. mjposner

    mjposner Karting

    Dec 1, 2021
    197
    Florida
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    Michael J Posner
    #5 mjposner, Jan 15, 2023
    That's the question. How much to discount as is. Open to a ppi.
     
  6. Gohigh54

    Gohigh54 Rookie

    Apr 29, 2019
    40
    #6 Gohigh54, Jan 15, 2023
    Asking prices on Autotrader is not a good indicator of the market. Things have softened significantly and will likely continue to do so. Look at Bring A Trailer sold auctions from the last few months. Watch EBay auctions and see what actually sells.

    I am actively watching 360/430 pricing as a buyer. The issues you highlighted could be much more then a few thousand and it could take a lot of time to sort. If you want top money make it perfect. In perfect condition you are likely looking at $110-120k. As is would be a sub $100k car for me.


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    Svthemnls, Mbutner and craterface like this.
  7. dgoldenz94

    dgoldenz94 Formula Junior

    Apr 13, 2020
    647
    Las Vegas
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    David Gold
    #7 dgoldenz94, Jan 15, 2023
    I would guesstimate $95k as is. $110-120k if you get everything fixed. Probably worth it to get it fixed, you’ll eat more of the cost by not fixing it because any buyer will require a massive discount to take an unknown quantity.

    edit - I’d probably actually deduct around $5-10k from those amounts since it’s an imported car. Seems cars from other countries usually sell for 5-10% less than US cars. It’s also a very basic spec so that will detract some.

    Get some wholesale offers and see where you stand at a bare minimum. This might be the kind of car Normal Guy Supercar on YouTube wants for the channel and to sell as a dealer
     
    Mbutner and craterface like this.
  8. mjposner

    mjposner Karting

    Dec 1, 2021
    197
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    Full Name:
    Michael J Posner
    #8 mjposner, Jan 16, 2023
    "Probably worth it to get it fixed, you’ll eat more of the cost by not fixing it because any buyer will require a massive discount to take an unknown quantity." My view is that all fixed its a $110k car. So any buyer can get a ppi and then discount for that.

    Airbag repair could be cheap, https://srsrestore.com/product/ferrari-f430-airbag-module-reset/

    Mirror repair is likely $1,500 - $2,500

    Top replacement is probably $5,000...but can wait

    Started up today, no check engine lights at all, drove perfect.

    Given the above, I think $102,500 is a fair price.
     
  9. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,321
    Houston, Texas
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    Bubba
    #9 BigTex, Jan 16, 2023
    Worth exploring the stored codes in the CEL system....

    It does a system wide poll upon start up, and then a fault will illuminate it.

    Three starts without the fault and the system resets to clear.
    But the Codes will be stacked in there, and a clue to where that actual issue resides....

    A world market car will indeed attract a review of it's import status into the uS.
    There's been tales of FNA dealers refusing to service there cars, but I don;t know if that's by Ferrari decree or individual dealer.
     
  10. swc5150

    swc5150 Formula Junior
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    Jan 5, 2021
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    Scott Calderwood
    #10 swc5150, Jan 16, 2023
    Looking at your VIN, the 8th letter is an "A" representing a USA spec car. With that, I'd assume FNA dealers would service it?
     
  11. mjposner

    mjposner Karting

    Dec 1, 2021
    197
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    Michael J Posner
    #11 mjposner, Jan 16, 2023
    I purchased this car for a client in 2007 from a local Florida dealer. My client died in 2021 and gave me the car:

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    I called Ferrari Naples about the pending recall, and they advised it needed two recalls, a brake fluid cap and convertible top. They have to order the parts. However they had the car and my name in the system, and they will service the car.
     
  12. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
    79,321
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    Bubba
    #12 BigTex, Jan 16, 2023
    Top adjustment or top relacement, that could be a nice windfall there..

    Good news also on Saudi and US sharing the specs.
    That makes things easier..
     
  13. mjposner

    mjposner Karting

    Dec 1, 2021
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    Michael J Posner
    #13 mjposner, Jan 16, 2023
  14. mjposner

    mjposner Karting

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    Michael J Posner
    #14 mjposner, Jan 16, 2023
    The dealer mentioned pads for the convertible top, though I really think its this:

    Recall #09V048000 (02/06/2009)
    • Component: ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
    • Summary: FERRARI IS RECALLING 1,950 MY 2005-2007 F40 SPIDER VEHICLES. THE DEFECT INVOLVES THE HYDRAULIC HOSES FOR THE CONVERTIBLE TOP THAT ARE LOCATED INSIDE OF THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT. THE HEAT FROM THE ENGINE MAY CAUSE HAIR-LINE CRACKS TO FORM IN THE HOSES WHICH MAY RESULT IN FLUID LEAKAGE FROM THE CONVERTIBLE TOP HYDRAULIC SYSTEM.
    • Consequence: THIS LEAKAGE IN TURN, WILL CAUSE THE CONVERTIBLE TOP WARNING LIGHT TO ILLUMINATE AND IF NOT REMEDIED, COULD ULTIMATELY LEAK FLUID INTO THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT CAUSING SMOKE AND A FIRE, RENDERING THE VEHICLE INOPERABLE AND POSSIBLY RESULTING IN A CRASH.
    • What owners should do: DEALERS WILL INSTALL PROTECTIVE HEAT SHIELDS OVER THE CONVERTIBLE TOP HYDRAULIC LINES TO INSULATE THEM FROM THE HEAT OF THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT. THIS SERVICE WILL BE PERFORMED FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON FEBRUARY 9, 2009. OWNERS MAY CONTACT FERRARI AT 201-816-2600.
     
  15. efg2014

    efg2014 Formula Junior

    Sep 14, 2014
    652
    Northern California
    #15 efg2014, Jan 16, 2023
    It has alot of issues,no service records AND it is from the middle east. What I have read is the extreme heat in the middle east does a number on cars. Personally I would not touch a car from the middle east unless it was an extremely rare car.
    During the good times a well kept F430 took about 3 months to sell. The car market is slow now. I"m guessing if you ask $105,000 you will be waiting around for a year or more assuming it will even sell. I would suggest pricing it in the high 80s or very low 90s.
     
  16. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    Nov 26, 2001
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    Merritt Tockkrazy
    #16 GrigioGuy, Jan 16, 2023
    ME car, lots of problems. What you know is wrong is probably the tip of the iceberg -- all F430s are getting to be old cars these days. I'll offer 50K cash today. I think it's probably worth 85K as it sits.
     
    Jakuzzi likes this.
  17. Tarek307

    Tarek307 Formula 3
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    Sep 26, 2018
    1,346
    Long Beach, CA & Alexandria,Egypt.
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    Tarek Salah
    #17 Tarek307, Jan 17, 2023
    A real no BS number as is would probably be $75,000 max..as this car could easily end up needing $30,000+ in work to bring it to a $115K car level and will still be a bit hard to sell cuz of its middle east life
     
    DBomb117, AHudson, Bullfighter and 2 others like this.
  18. Horse That Prances

    Horse That Prances Rookie

    Jul 22, 2019
    39
    #18 Horse That Prances, Jan 17, 2023
  19. mjposner

    mjposner Karting

    Dec 1, 2021
    197
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael J Posner
    #19 mjposner, Jan 17, 2023
    Thanks for the feedback, but let me address several issues:

    1. From the Carfax it was imported to US in 2/07 so it did not spend more than a year overseas:
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    2. " lots of problems..." That's what a ppi is for. I had car inspected in January 2022 at Prestige Auto, only issue found at that time was motor mounts, which were replaced. Pompeo at Prestige Auto knows the car well and you can call him to ask (http://prestigeautopb.com/).

    3. "no service records" It has a full service history as posted: https://photos.app.goo.gl/EsVX1kcgvkzodGSR9. I also posted 14 service records that I do have: https://photos.app.goo.gl/MngPXFisHJ73YynR9

    4. I was being transparent about check engine light. It appears to be triggered by low voltage as car is not on tender and can sit a week without being driven. It was off when I started car this week-end to take pics: https://photos.app.goo.gl/dMo4wpvmHH4V5eeG6

    5. Car will be at Ferrari Naples for the recall in two weeks, perfect time for a buyer to get a ppi and see if this is a "car could easily end up needing $30,000+ in work." or just a 3-8k issue.

    6. The top works fine, and has newish ribbons and pumps (2017/2018). https://photos.app.goo.gl/iKxcdB21fQd9YiA9A

    Hope this clarifies the situation. I agree the $108k car is a great comparison and a good starting point.
     
    technom3 likes this.
  20. SD Paul

    SD Paul Rookie

    Mar 30, 2022
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    Paul
    #20 SD Paul, Jan 17, 2023
    History + current issues + market softening puts this at 75-80,000. Sorry but factors above will hold this back from being anywhere closer to triple digits.
     
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  21. VAF84

    VAF84 Formula 3
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    Jul 23, 2016
    2,277
    Central Texas
    #21 VAF84, Jan 18, 2023
    I agree with the $75k range. Hard enough to sell the usual 15 year old Ferrari with its host of quirks without adding on the uncertainty of this vehicle’s history. Not to mention softening market. Hopefully I’m not offending, but you can try to justify the price, but this is just feedback as requested from a fellow F430 owner. Regardless, wish you best of luck on a sale. Always tough to sell these private party.
     
  22. mjposner

    mjposner Karting

    Dec 1, 2021
    197
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Michael J Posner
    #22 mjposner, Jan 18, 2023
    I understand the feedback, but if it really is a $10k repair, are you suggesting its only an $85k car? That is what I am struggling with as every F430 sale is plus $100k. Obviously if the car needs $30k work I would agree. Fortunately for me I do not need to sell so at $75k I would just keep and enjoy (top is always down and i do not need a/c) so with those being the main issues they do not matter to me. I will take to dealer for recall and air bag reset for now.
     
  23. mjposner

    mjposner Karting

    Dec 1, 2021
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    Michael J Posner
    #23 mjposner, Jan 18, 2023
  24. swc5150

    swc5150 Formula Junior
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    Scott Calderwood
    #24 swc5150, Jan 18, 2023
    Your car has a kick@$$ exhaust system, and I'd imagine headers to match? That's a plus. Full paint correction and ceramic would serve it well too. That's cheap and will make a striking visible improvement. Also maybe get the interior professionally cleaned or spend a couple of days using Leatherique to clean it up. AC could actually be an easy fix, like recharge? Fix the mirror of course. Change the oil and trans fluids for peace of mind, again cheap and easy. An awesome car happened upon you, so maybe get some enjoyment out of it while the market is soft.
     
    AHudson, Mike Morrissey and BigTex like this.
  25. Testarossa Lover

    Testarossa Lover F1 Rookie
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    Dec 31, 2006
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    Haig Barsamian
    #25 Testarossa Lover, Jan 18, 2023
    Here is my take on this. Anyone who knows F cars will look at this car at a not big deal to repair but with that said, they will most likely offer 75-80K. If you are able to keep it, you should.
     
    DBomb117, VAF84, BigTex and 2 others like this.
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