Fiat Dino series 1 Timing Chain Sprocket bearing replacement | FerrariChat

Fiat Dino series 1 Timing Chain Sprocket bearing replacement

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by fiatdino67, Feb 4, 2023.

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  1. fiatdino67

    fiatdino67 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2023
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    doug martin
    I am a new member to the chat... 40+year owner of a Fiat Dino 1967 Series 1. Currently I have taken
    on the task of a rebuild and I have hit a snag... I am replacing the timing chain sprocket bearings and
    gears that run off the crank main gear. Wondering if there is a special tool or socket to remove the
    bearing retainer or what procedure was used to remove the gears? thanks, doug m
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    Been a while since I have done one but do not recall any special tools needed.
    "Special tool" is a term that has different meanings for different people. Have a picture of the problem in question?
     
  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Picture says a thousand words.
     
  4. fiatdino67

    fiatdino67 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2023
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    doug martin
  5. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    A six-point ring nut. Never saw one before. Ferrari tends to use various 4 point ring nuts for which there are plenty of special tools.

    I suggest you make one up from a six point socket and grind the material away to fit the 6 point ring nut. My experience says it won't last long but enough for one job.
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Its been on and off several times with a hammer and punch and or chisel. Do the same. Once off the bearing retainers can either be cleaned up with grinder and file or replaced and then it will also be easier to either find a socket or fabricate one as described.

    I am betting based on how it was done they are not super tight.

    If you use a propane torch on the alloy around the diameter of the retainer it will make the job easier.
     
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  7. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
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    Nov 29, 2006
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    Ferrari and Fiat loved using 4, 6, 8 slot ring nuts. Many sources for them. Considering those nuts are rather important to the engine living I would get new nuts and order the proper tools. Superformance will have them you just need to measure up the size you need.
    https://www.superformance.co.uk/246/accessories.html
     
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  8. fiatdino67

    fiatdino67 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2023
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    doug martin
    I appreciate both of your suggestions… and have considered both…. I tried using a punch and didn’t want to damage the six point retainer so I made only a modest attempt at removal , even though it has considerable damage from previous removal … a 35 mm socket may actually work for fabrication. Thanks for your suggestions and I will keep you informed of my progress
     
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    They may have been installed with locktite. Heat from the torch will break down locktite.
     
  10. wmuno

    wmuno Formula Junior
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    Bill Muno
    If a dedicated socket is very expensive, a Walton tap extractor might work. It’s hard to judge the diameter of the nut from the photo. My largest extractor is 1-inch; the ID of the steel fingers is about 15 mm. A 3-finger extractor would work for your nut.
     
  11. fiatdino67

    fiatdino67 Rookie

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    doug martin
    The slot rings are 43 mm apart .
     
  12. wmuno

    wmuno Formula Junior
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    The largest Walton tap extractor is for a 38 mm tap (1-1/2") which is too small for your nut. You may want to try the suggestion given above of grinding 6 fingers on a socket with a matching outside diameter of the nut. It's not uncommon to fabricate a special tool for these unusual fastners. I'm sure Fiat made a tool for this nut; the problem is trying to find the tool today.
     
  13. wmuno

    wmuno Formula Junior
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    These are called ring nuts if that helps with your search.
     
  14. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
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  15. wmuno

    wmuno Formula Junior
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    A 50-44mm ring nut tool might be be the correct size for you application. Unfortunately, the Ferrari tools that are available are all for 4 slot ring nuts.
     
  16. fiatdino67

    fiatdino67 Rookie

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    doug martin
    Appreciate your suggestion… I’m going to give that ring nut tool a try before machining one out of a 6 point 35mm socket.
     
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  17. fiatdino67

    fiatdino67 Rookie

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    doug martin
    Total width of the ring nut is 46mm … I really appreciate everyone’s suggestions …
     
  18. wmuno

    wmuno Formula Junior
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    One final comment; there is a 46mm 4-finger Ferrari ring nut tool: https://www.ricambiamerica.com/rnt-46-ring-nut-tool-46mm-1.html

    If you grind off 2 opposite fingers; it would fit on your 46mm 6-finger ring nut.
     
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  19. fiatdino67

    fiatdino67 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2023
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    doug martin
    Great suggestion…. Appreciate your research and suggestions… thanks
     
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  20. fiatdino67

    fiatdino67 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2023
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    doug martin
    The continuing saga…. I made a 6 point tool from a 35 mm 6 point socket… fits perfectly…I tested it with modest pressure but I need to put some significant heat on it . Just wanted to make sure that it wasn’t reverse threaded.
    Does anyone know? Thanks again.. Doug m
     
  21. fiatdino67

    fiatdino67 Rookie

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    RayJohns, NYC Fred and Tegethoff like this.
  22. Tegethoff

    Tegethoff Formula Junior

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    Harbor freight 3/4 metric socket set has been quite useful for similar purposes, reduce the OD for bolts in a deep pocket, grind the entry bevel completely flat for low profile nuts, grind out tabs for ring nuts, machine off 70% of the socket to fit in low clearance application, seal and bearing race driver when you don't have the one that fits exactly, the possibilities are endless.
     
  23. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    looks conventional righty tighy” from pics
     
  24. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    You might also be able to use a vintage ~2" Williams hook spanner. That's what I use on the big locking nut on 458 coil overs; might work here if you need to get some leverage.

    Ray
     
  25. fiatdino67

    fiatdino67 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2023
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    doug martin
    Thanks to everyone on the Chat. I ended up making sockets for both the outside ring nut and the locking inward nut after folding back the tabs on the locking washer . I used an old 11/16th socket ..: now on to replacing bearings etc
     

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