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Red Bull F1

Discussion in 'F1' started by NEP, Apr 18, 2018.

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  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Rest to see what the Ford's involvement will be in that deal.

    - Red Bull Powertrain-designed engines badged as Ford ?
    - Red Bull Powertrain and Ford cooperating to design the next generation of engines ?
    - Ford simply as sponsor, with no technical input ?
     
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  2. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    Red Bull does not look like to me they have much skills in PU design - they have always been relying on external partners for that (Ford-Cosworth, Ferrari, Renault, Honda).
    So I would think Ford technical involvement is needed, unless they want to subcontract to another company (not Red Bull F1).
     
  3. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Post #1178 had some data about Ford from a few weeks ago. This is more inline with Cadillac and Andretti as well. This is not a company offering to invest B$ but maybe a few MIL$. Assistance - whatever that means in Corporate double/triple speak and 'marketing'. Free or low cost headlines and nice posters in the Ford showroom of how they are "IN F1" LOL. Ford banners on the circuit and displays of passenger trucks maybe lol ???????? :)

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ford-linked-to-f1-return-with-red-bull/10411389/

    Ford linked to F1 return with Red Bull
    American manufacturer Ford has emerged as a surprise candidate for a Formula 1 return in 2026, after being linked to Red Bull’s engine plans.

    .............But now sources have revealed that Ford is exploring options with Red Bull, with the two companies already working together in WRC.


    It is suggested that Ford’s preferred route is very different from Porsche, which wanted more control of the Red Bull team as well as ownership of shares.


    Instead, Ford has no interest in formal ownership of the operation and is believed to be happy to leave Red Bull in charge of technical development of the power unit, although there would be the possibility for it to offer assistance in any areas of expertise it has.


    Its involvement would be more about marketing and brand presence – with it benefiting from connections in F1 and Red Bull gaining from the added kudos of a tie-up with a global player like Ford.


    A potential Red Bull-Ford tie up would have clear implications for Honda, which has enjoyed the best success of its latest era in F1 over the past two years.
     
  4. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-ford-can-offer-red-bull-what-porsche-could-not-in-f1/10427645/

    Why Ford can offer Red Bull what Porsche could not in F1
    With Ford's confirmation of a partnership with Red Bull Powertrains imminent, it gives the Milton Keynes squad more pulling power in the American market. It's one of the key aspects the Detroit marque can offer which Porsche, expected to tie up with Red Bull before the deal fell through, could not



    ...........Ford ticks all the appropriate boxes for Red Bull, and vice versa. F1 is enjoying its global, Netflix-led popularity boom. It has finally cracked the American market as a maiden Las Vegas GP this year will complement the existing rounds in Miami and Austin, Texas. That swelling Stateside appeal is why Andretti Autosport is noisily buzzing around F1 and has bolstered its credentials for any nascent entry by partnering with General Motors. Biggest rival Ford wants a slice of that pie, too.

    F1’s endeavour to be net-zero carbon by 2030 further helps sell the dream to the Detroit boardrooms as they bring the inherent contradiction that is two-tonne-plus all-electric trucks to market. Racing in the topflight from 2026 onwards, when fuels will be fully sustainable and the electric capacity of the hybrid powertrain increased, will be perceived to be in-line with that sustainability push. Combine it with the ‘win on Sunday, sell on Monday’ adage - which, in partnership with Red Bull, Ford stands a very good chance of doing from the off - then any major F1 presence has real commercial value.

    Then there’s why Ford appeals to Red Bull - with what it will, and won’t, bring to the table being of equal significance. Writing a big cheque is a major starting point. Porsche was preparing to stump up to buy a 50% stake in Red Bull Advanced Technologies (the arm of the operation that houses the race team) and back the Powertrains division in a 10-year deal.

    Ford won’t be parting with as many dollars as that setup would have required. It is instead thought to be investing in the power unit programme only. In return, expect the famous blue oval to appear on the engine cover of future RB creations and prominent Ford faces to feature at all the major races and have their quotes at the bottom of key Red Bull press releases.
     
  5. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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  6. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
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    I've been watching the team presentation and felt quite confused about Red Bull's engines. So Honda left but really didn't and later came back and then somehow got into a Ford promo.
     
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  7. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    as far as I know they'll still be honda engines badged till end of 2025, then it'll be Ford badged. Right now its just a sponsorship...
     
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  8. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Some naysayers have been saying Red Bull and Max aren't as marketable as certain others.

    Not only did Red Bull hook Ford today, but also Heineken as a team partner, ROKT as well and EA became (another) personal sponsor of Max.

    I believe Red Bull is now completely funded by sponsorship, making RB money as they go along....and then the exposure they get on top of all that is quite significant.
     
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  9. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

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    I'm going with a Ford sticker on the car while Red Bull Powertrains design and develop off their Honda engine.
     
  10. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The cheapest option for Ford possibly.
     
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  11. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The RB7 at Bathurst. Ummmm, Jensen Button's record still holds....fyi.

     
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  12. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

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    My first thought was if the track record was broken. I haven't heard what times Liam did, but I am not surprised Jenson was faster. Those 2008 cars were fast and didn't need DRS or ERS to be fast. Of course neither driver was pushing remotely close to the limit. Judging from some racing simulators, a sub 1:40 would be easily doable in either car on a quali lap.
     
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  13. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Perez pushed Red Bull "in a certain direction" on 2023 F1 car (motorsport.com)

    No more excuses then, Sergio...car "developed" in your direction, I assume you'll be taking the fight to Verstappen then...

    Honestly, I like Perez, but he's living on a different planet if he believes that:
    a) he can beat Max
    b) the car would be developed for the slower driver
    c) the direction perez wants creates a slower car, so why develop to that?
     
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  14. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Red Bull won't be needing the prize money :D
     
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  15. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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  16. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    :D

    We drove past it recently and could almost smell the bank notes
     
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  17. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    RedBull won't get full engine supplier status for 2026 unlike Audi. RedBull will only get 90% engine status. This starts in 2023, 2024 and 2025 with regards to money spent for RedBull.
     
  18. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/red-bull-ford-will-not-get-full-new-f1-engine-supplier-status-for-2026/10430343/

    --In determining the new status under the financial rules, the FIA splits the manufacturer into three categories: 40% for infrastructure, 50% for ICE status, and 10% for ERS status.

    With regard to the third item, the regulations note the FIA will consider "the prior experience of the PU manufacturer in Formula 1 ERS systems, and potential possession of significant recent intellectual property."

    It's understood that the new partnership won't be guaranteed full new status because Red Bull Powertrains currently assembles battery packs for the existing Honda engine, and is thus deemed to have some prior knowledge of the technology.


    By losing the 10% ERS contribution, its total score drops to 90%. The company will thus be able to take advantage of only 90% of the extra benefits on cost cap and capital expenditure limits that full newcomer Audi will receive.

    Red Bull will thus miss out on an extra $1m spending allowance in both 2023 and 2024, and $500,000 in 2025. In addition, it loses $1.5m in capital expenditure benefits over those seasons.

    The same three categories are considered separately for the sporting and technical regulations, relating to items such as dyno time.

    The weighting for that is 20% infrastructure, 50% ICE, and 30% ERS. However, a manufacturer only needs a total of 50% to get full new supplier rights, and despite the ERS issue Red Bull is at 70%, and therefore meets the criteria.--
     
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  19. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

  20. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Red Bull already obtained an engine freeze when Honda "left" (well, sort of).
    Then they pretended they would be a new engine builder in 2026, but nobody believed them, curriously.
    It pays to be brazen in F1, but they were pushing their luck this time.
    How many times can one be a virgin ?
     
  22. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, they got 90% instead of 100%....so they pushed their luck as far as it would go and still managed to go in their favor IMO.

    Braziness runs in RedBull.

    The same can be said when they went over the budget cap.......a little slap on the wrist.
     
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  23. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    Well it’s fair to say historical teams ( Ferrari, Mclaren Williams ) are not on the same political level compared with the new 2010 forces ( Red Bull, Mercedes)
    Coincidence ?
    Frankly I don’t know.
     
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  24. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It's evident that the winning teams of the moment should have more influence.

    F1 isn't the place to maintain grand father's rights.
     
  25. Top speed

    Top speed Formula Junior

    Jul 4, 2020
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    Ferrari should have and demand most influence. They have been in F1 long before "Toto F1 team", and will be long after Torger cashes in on his "investments". Same goes for the energy can company. If F1 is still around 2050, rb wont be there anymore, mark my words.
    Winningest teams dont wield influence in F1 these days, people with most money do.
     

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