car design thread | Page 622 | FerrariChat

car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 World Champ
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  2. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    A cane can't walk w/out assistance ...
     
  3. NeuroBeaker

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    @jm2 is a stylish man. :cool:

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  4. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula 3

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    More on this car - gotta' check out that junkyard....

    The way the car came about was British Ford dealer and race team sponsor John Willment had a leftover 427 Cobra chassis, left over from earlier racing efforts. He directed his underlings (tell me, if there are “underlings” are there also “overlings”?) to go down to the junkyard and find a body for it and they came back with an aluminum body designed by Giovanni Savonuzzi and hand built by Ghia, originally fitted to a Fiat 8V chassis.

    Savonuzzi did the original design for a one-off race car built by Virgil Conrero for the Mille Miglia. It was only after that race that the design was adapted for the production Fiat 8V (called 8V because Fiat mistakenly thought Ford had copyrighted the phrase “V8”)

    The engine in the hodge-podge Cobra using that body later was not just a ordinary 427 but one that had been breathed on by Holman-Moody, the stock car racing folks who had also been in on Ford’s ’67 LeMans victory by running one of the GT 40 Mk. IV racing teams. The engine had twin four barrels and depending on compression and state of tune could put out 485 hp.

    Some theorize the chassis tubes were extended by 5″ in the front. And the Supersonic body had to be modified to fit the chassis.

    This car has been out and around for some five decades. At one point it belonged to a London policeman, that’s when it was kicking around for under $10,000.


    The car has also been for sale by such notable emporiums as Rod Leach’s “Nostalgia” in England and The Checkered Flag in Marina Del Rey,CA.

    In 2009 on the Club Cobra forum website Trevor Legate, a British historian, wrote

    CSX3055 is currently undergoing a 2 – 3 year restoration process in the UK that might, finally, make it the car it should have been from day one. (Nobody ever took up the challenge) It needed the suspension sorted, which has been done and now the rather tacky interior is being rebuilt a per a 427, after removing some rather tacky 1970s quilted padding to the doors and dashboard.

    Once it’s been painted it should emerge looking the proverbial million $$$ – and maybe it might be worth that as well. I look forward to getting some suitable snaps of the finished product, maybe this summer?

    ‘Tis a big fearsome beastie and definitely good, in theory, for 200mph+ (it used to start getting scary at around 130mph I’m reliably informed….)


    Now the irony of all this is that, since that body was found in that junkyard, Fiat 8Vs, especially those rare ones with the Supersonic body style, have climbed toward a million dollars. And 427 Cobras with genuine CSX3000 numbers have done likewise.

    So the eternal question is: what should happen to this car? Should the owner sell the body to whoever has the original 8V chassis so the two can at last be reunited happily ever after? Should the chassis have a Cobra body, hand built of aluminum using as original-as-possible formers to guide its shape? (But then it would be yet another lookalike 427 Cobra roadster…)
     
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  5. tritone

    tritone F1 Veteran
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    "......gotta' check out that junkyard...."

    Please do that!! Pix will be required/appreciated.......
     
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  6. Jeff Kennedy

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    Is the Taurus system also performing all the surface scanning too?

    Maybe you can talk about the evolution of that technology too. I remember Chrysler in the latter part of the 1970s moved their clays from the studio to a basement area for the scanning because they though the one fixed system in that room was better than they could do in the design studio. Models were known to suffer damage on that trip sometimes. Chrysler's then system was to not model minimum bend radiuses but to do that "in the tapes".
     
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  7. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    When I began my career at GM in the mid 70's, the milling/point taking technology was in its infancy. Surfaces were recorded by this gigantic, noisy machine that took up almost one whole side of the model. It was awful, and disrupting, but it was a start.

    In the mid '80's Tarus teamed up w/GM to develop the first clay milling machine. Computers were just beginning to be introduced into the studio environment. After that, GM was all oil and embraced recording surface, milling clay and ultimately using software to directly take Alias data convert it to a math cutting program and mill in an entire model in a few days depending on complexity.

    Having begun my career as a clay sculptor at FoMoCo my job as a newbie was to 'drag' the clay rocker panels with wood templates. A back breaking, thankless job, trust me. So in those 50 yrs, the technology has progressed to where a design can be milled in full size with very little human input. HOWEVER, and never lose sight of this, the creative sculptors are necessary to refine the surfaces that have been milled in. The human touch is essential. Some companies brag that their vehicles arte done totally in math w/o a full size clay. And their products look like it to my eye.

    That's not to say in the future all this could change with AI, and improved software development. Bu as it stands today, computer controlled machines in tandam with creative sculptors yield the best results IMVHO.

    https://claymill.com/about/history-of-the-claymill
     
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  8. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  9. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 World Champ
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  10. NeuroBeaker

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    That would be really cool if it was functional. But it's not, so it isn't.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  11. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  12. Jeff Kennedy

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    I was thinking more along the lines of what the surface scan, not the clay milling, allowed. The scanning system could kick out bad surface data like an imperfection in the clay. More accuracy in symmetry. But a really big deal was that it more accurately and quickly gave the surface lofting to the engineers for their work of structures and going to tooling. Upon graduation I was at a place that had not gone digital and we had a room full of body surface engineers work from hand cut cardboard templates doing full size engineering drawing on roll mylar.
     
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  13. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Yes the surface data recording improved by leaps and bounds. Initially it was crude surface lines that were sent to the body engineers for evaluation in an iterative process. As the technology improved, the data generated was close to class A surface. Now, they are confident that the dies can be cut from the data generated from the clay surface. Much of the handwork drafting is no longer necessary.
     
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  14. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Aigle Cabriolet
    Coachwork: Ghia
    Designer: Giovanni Michelotti
    Chassis #: AR1900C*01959*

    The Alfa Romeo 1900 was presented in 1950 at the Paris Salon de l'Automobile, and was offered as a four-door sedan and two-door coupe. Styled by Alfa's design director, Orazio Satta Puliga, it was Alfa's first new post-war production model, first built on an assembly line, and their first production car with a unibody. Alfa's sales slogan was 'The family car that wins race
    In 1951 the short-wheelbase 1900C was introduced. The body on this car came from Carrosserie Ghia S.A., Aigle Switzerland, a subsidiary of Ghia until 1953. Ghia bodied only eight Alfa Romeos, and this was the first.


    This Alfa Romeo 1900 CSS Ghia Aigle Cabriolet was manufactured on May 10, 1954, and was immediately sold as a rolling chassis to Societa per il Commercio dei Prodotti Alfa Romeo in Lugano, Switzerland, the new location of Ghia Aigle. One of just eight Alfa Romeos bodied by Italian coachbuilder Ghia, it was designed by Giovanni Michelotti for the Geneva Auto Salon, where it debuted in March of 1955 (the earliest example produced). Two years earlier, P.P. Filippi had established an independent subsidiary of Ghia in Aigle, Switzerland, and the firm produced a number of spectacular cars for wealthy clients and for display at auto shows throughout Europe. After the Geneva show, the car was sold to a Swiss owner and then to Claude Fresard, who featured it in his Musee de l'Automobile Muriaux in Switzerland for about ten years.


    The car is powered by a twin-overhead cam, inline 4-cylinder 1975cc engine developing 115 horsepower coupled to a 5-speed manual transmission. The chassis consists of coil-spring suspension, independent in front, worm-and-roller steering, and hydraulic drum brakes. The car weighs 2,205 pounds and has a top speed of 112 mph.


    During the 1980s, the car underwent a restoration. It came to the United States in 2000. It was acquired by its current owner in 2009, and a restoration was completed in August 2013. That year, it won second place in its class at Pebble Beach.


    The CSS was a rare 1900 combining the short wheelbase with a racing specification engine, five-speed gearbox, and revised final-drive ratios, along with self-adjusting front disc brakes with large Alfin drums at the rear. It is powered by a 115-horsepower version of Alfa's aluminum DOHC 1975cc four-cylinder engine. Suspension is independent in the front with double wishbones and hydraulic telescoping shock absorbers. Notwithstanding its solid rear axle, the suspension provided excellent all-around performance.




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    Coupe by Touring
    Coupe by Zagato
    Chassis#: AR1900CO1998
    Chassis#: AR1900C*01947
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  15. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Given this is turning into Alfa weekend, here is a 1939 8C 2900B I ran across by accident recently. Enjoy!

    The 8C 2900B was born of Alfa's desire to continue dominating Italy's Mille Miglia race. They also needed a production car to replace the 8C 2300. Never was dual-purpose practicality more exquisitely wrought.
    The 2900 chassis was that of Alfa's most recent Grand Prix car which also provided the supercharged engine. Three cars were entered in the 1936 Mille Miglia and finished in order.

    A few more than thirty of the road-going 2900Bs were produced between 1937 and 1939 in two versions. Initially, the 112-inch wheelbase Corto and then the eight-inch-longer Lungo.
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  16. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  17. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  18. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    My friend Adam cites his choices for the top 5 American designs from the ‘50’s-‘70’s
     
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  19. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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  20. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  21. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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  22. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 World Champ

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    Wow wow wow! A perfect update on the original 240Z! That would be a huge hit.
     
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  23. jm2

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  24. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Not many people are aware that Cadillac abandoned the Elky market after 204 earlier attempts (sort of).

     
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