IMO what helps the GT3RS is the rear of the car is steeply sloped back So, there's room for a crazy spoiler. But the SF90 has a more square back and I think the same size spoiler would look odd
That's incorrect. Ferraris have underbody aero. If you can do it smartly, there is no need for huge wings. Ferraris' forms are dictated by aero. Not really. A modern, wingless Ferrari is much more stable at high speeds, compared to, say, an F40. How come the SF90 Stradale is quicker around a track than a Senna, then?
That like splitting hairs come on lmao. Comparing older models to current one is always going to result in that sorta out come. Its pointless to even go there.
Not sure what to make of the SF VS. I suppose I can understand the wing which is a departure for VS cars, since the SF90 AF itself is a departure for the mainstream cars. But it looks to be quite unimaginative - no swan neck, not too aggressive. Leaves me wondering if the final wing will be more interesting or even integrated like the F40/50? The problem with an SF XX type car is it might seem to be heading towards a much more dedicated and track-focused car, maybe like a Senna. But the weight starts to suggest such a car would be much more compromised than the standard AF car which makes an interesting alternative to a Senna (as fast around a track, more liveable on the road). The SF90 is so good that I’m left wondering what I’d want improving? I guess more aero would be interesting but unless you’re around 800kg it’s not worth bothering. Lighter weight would be an improvement of sorts (I.e a super track special would need that but the current car doesn’t really) but you need 200kg to make it really good and that won’t happen. More power will likely be the answer but if there’s one thing the existing car doesn’t need, it’s more power! Maybe 1100hp, rwd only so losing maybe 150kg plus 500kg aero would make it interesting. It’s not an SF90 then and would be an interesting addition. So not really sure what to expect. Put it this way, 50hp, 50kg less weight and another 150kg of aero would seem to be a bit pointless unless it just looks amazing.
May I suggest another alternative about that wing? Could it be that Ferrari is just researching the aero balance with a wing, and then try to emulate such results without a wing? Just thinking out loud here... Then again, isn't that the template of all VS so far? Perhaps the difference in feeling will be more than the numbers suggest.
AWD and 200 more hp and who says it's faster - SF90 weighs 1000 lb.s more than Senna - I don't understand how you all know so much vs Ferrari Mclaren F1 builders knows so little. Fun fact - there are fans in my Speciale for downforce - believe Ferrari was sued as they infringed on someones patents I have an SF90 Spider allocation but would love to exchange for the VS - more downforce on 1000hp is more than welcome.
The numbers say so. Autocar road course: Ferrari SF90 Stradale: 1:03.60 McLaren Senna: 1:03.80 Okay, same lap time really, but on a slow course. On a faster circuit, the Ferrari would be much quicker, due to its straight line advantage.
Any advantage the Ferrari has in straight line acceleration would be made up for by the sennas ability to brake later.
Anyone who has spent some time on a race track knows that the rate of acceleration (not the terminal speed or the braking distance) is what matters most down the straights. That's why racing teams measure how many seconds their cars spend on each straight, rather than their terminal velocity, or braking distance. The vast majority of that time is gained or lost on the acceleration phase, in the first half of the straight. Of course on tracks with huge straights, such as Monza or Spa, the terminal velocity is also important. The end story though is that the SF90, a heavy car, was quicker than the much lighter Senna, on a slow track. A quicker track will always lend itself to the faster (in a straight line at least) car. Now, all these are meaningless, since both are fantastic cars. All I wanted to show was that one cannot denigrate a car based on its weight alone.
You are responding to a comment I did not make which is "a wing makes no difference". This is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that there is enough aero on a road car with Spoiler and diffuser to get it to do all you need it to do on the road.
Yes, I know. Underbody aero (i.e., rear diffuser) is the epitome of form over function. Function over form are cars like the Senna and the GT3 RS.
Enough aero - I am sorry but it's just not true. Add a track focussed road legal car and it's just simple math The more rubber that's on the asphalt is simply better - it's not arguable.
Lets get to the point F1 teams fight for ounces - 1000 pounds doesn't matter on track - ok. Own Senna and 765LT the LT is quicker than SF90 straight line which means the Senna aero slows it down. Senna is lighter than LT even with active aero it shows the downforce results. Love these brands making their cars as fast as possible for our enjoyment. Safety is still key! Just don't understand why SF90 track focussed would not have a wing. Also own a Viper which also has a massive wing - the downforce helped break 13 track records. Fact is - every dealer is receiving requests for SF90VS but for some reason here, it's disliked which tells you who posts vs reality. I would love to change my SF90 Spider allocation to VS.
This is ridiculous. Anyone who has spent time on the track knows that braking late at high speeds is the single most challenging and scary thing to do and the one area where you need to have maximum confidence in your car. The fastest cars at track days are stripped out 3 series with big wings and big brakes for a reason. They get demolished on the straights and they carry speed through the corners and brake later than everyone else. You come on here and spout nonsense, consistently, to people who what they're talking about and actually own and drive these type of cars.
Can’t be Anglesey, SF90 AF was 1.09 something. This must be a very short track.. MIRA Proving Ground supposedly, never heard of it and SF 90 AF quicker in all parameters, I’m just not surprised, SF 90 AF feels faster to me from the seat..
I think your first point could be the case although others have hinted it will have a wing. I guess my point is that although the usual formula for VS is probably what they will use, it seems to me that isn’t enough for SF90 because the AF car already goes a long way towards that. No more power but more aero, lighter weight and a completely new suspension system. That already feels like a VS package. Given the longer tail treatment of this car, perhaps the package is a surprise and will be quite a departure. If it is genuinely low volume, lighter weight, more power and good looking, it may justify the inevitable price ask. If it’s not a full XX for the road as day355 suggested, it has to be low volume or stunningly beautiful or a combination of both.
Found this while googling a bit, should be Autocar's own handling test track. Image Unavailable, Please Login
We have both AF and Senna. AF feels quicker everywhere but the point of Senna is to offer a rawer driving experience more akin to a racer. SF90 doesn’t feel much like a race car but Senna really does (even though it still isn’t). That the cars are so closely matched in lap time is testament to both approaches and both companies. It’s easy to see where the lap time comes from in an AF - instant and huge power plus the ability to put it down. Senna is more nuanced because later braking and high corner speed is its thing. Probably harder for most of us to extract the lap time a Senna could do, whereas SF90 AF is always helping you with its power to cover your mistakes and four wheel drive. Both brilliant cars. The VS looks like it will try to out-Senna the Senna. At which point its weight is more of an issue. In the end, if it’s a great car it doesn’t matter - it’ll be a great car. Perhaps we (I) should leave it at that and wait and see what they deliver.
The SF90 Vs will be im every metrics superior to its base model SF90/AF. The question is more are you willing to pay 25-30% price increase over the base SF90 and take the hit on your Sf90 base model if trading in?
"Track focussed road legal cars" are just "road cars". They are not race cars, not track cars. The difference in performance between a GT3, and a GT3 touring on a track, in the hands of pro drivers, is fairly small. And those are cars that have little diffuser or underbody work. Further, it would be unwise to push a "track legal road car" to a point where a wing will make a material difference for the sake of this being unsafe in absence of harnesses, roll cage, fire suppression system. I appreciate and experience what a wing can do for me on the track in a race car, and I understand and experience I absolutely don't need extra downforce on my SF 90 that's 1,000HP on the road. It's not about whether a wing create downforce, it's whether that downforce make a meaningful difference, on the road. It does not. Ferrari's approach to keeping wings off their road cars, and putting wings on their race cars (Challenge, XX, ...), where they are actually making a material difference makes a lot of sense.
Think it’s going to be a higher number than that.. add up an Assetto Fiorano equipped car with all interior and exterior Carbon plus the added premium for an HP Jump and KG reduction and VS line.. wouldn’t be surprised if it’s Senna like pricing, because I think this car will be better than the Senna.. and look a lot better
