Financing for 458, running into roadblocks, looking for options

IMO no…. Ferrari and Lamborghini both were built on the back of wonderfully balanced, smooth running V-12s. For me, losing the V-12s to history will be like losing manual transmissions.

You know good and well that if 458s skyrocket, there will be whack-jobs taking 488s and removing turbos….LOL.

 

I would go to a local credit union. They are generally very easy to deal with and accommodating. I have been with mine for several years and tend to by and sell a car every few years. Also a home equity loan will be at the lowest rate you can get. If you only plan to keep it for a few years before moving on either would work. Best of luck!

 

If you follow Four Wheel Trader, the basic 458 has had a big increase in value since July 2020, but now has a downward price pressure due to increased supply. I'm not so sure with 21,000 cars produced (coupes and spiders) that we will see another giant increase other than normal inflation going forward which might be offset by cars being driven and accumulating miles. The 458 Speciale really is the last non-turbo V8 and is limited production, so that car should still appreciate in value even more as ICE engines go away. Also don't delude yourself, no one is going to make a 2035 deadline for no new ICE cars, like everything they will extend the deadline every few years till the infrastructure and technology make it really possible.

 

This is a great discussion that needs a reset from time to time.

Yes, an underfunded buyer can obtain financing, but should they? The only winners it seems is the seller and the banker.

It certainly brings me back to the start of my dream in 2005. I really wanted a 355 so bad that I would do anything for it. A few kind posters here and people in my personal life convinced me that the best solution for a regular 9-5 Engineer with a mortgage and 2 small children was to take the time to save up so I could buy it responsibly.

It forced me to find additional income streams and not get caught up with having the new or best of everything, like phones and daily drivers. So 9 years later, all of a sudden (seems like) I had $182,000 in my car fund and I was truly ready to make that dream purchase. Not bad for a middle income guy.

 

You’re probably right. Let’s make it a 348 or even a 355.


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I much enjoy being debt free, vehicles, house, and business including my building.

 

thats cool, i enjoy having more wealth.

 

I think for him it’s fairly simple. $50K down. Borrow on the house and take out a loan for the rest.

I’m not saying this is a smart thing to do just saying that’s what he should do if he wants the car.


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can also get lightstream to drop a check into his account if his credit score is that high. southeast financial has some great 3 year rates...maybe do a piece with them...

 

I agree with @ttforcefed. I believe the OP is legit, sincere, and has done his math on the financing side of the equation. The concern (that some have raised, including myself) about massive accumulation of interest over a 15-year loan is moot since he plans to make accelerated payments to pay it off in 5 or 6 years. All of that is good and I don't doubt his sincerity or his financial diligence.

Where I think his approach is incomplete is not utilizing the Fchat brain-trust to find out real-world maintenance and repair costs on the 458, to get opinions on whether the value of a 458 will appreciate or depreciate (the only way it will appreciate is if the "last of the breed" factor outweighs the massive depreciation on every single mid-engine V8 over the last nearly 50 years -- which is possible, but not something to bank on with stretched dollars). Also, he should take some time to post why he likes the 458 specifically because he may get feedback that leads him to other models that are more affordable and have less depreciation risk that he might actually enjoy more. I've only driven a 458 once, so I'm hardly an authority to offer an opinion, but as brilliant as the car was, it felt big and disconnected to me versus the raw earlier cars. There are a lot of far less expensive cars I prefer driving over the 458. Newer is not always better with Ferrari from a driver enjoyment perspective (depending on each person's priorities) or from a maintenance and operational cost perspective.

Additionally, if we want to give useful advice, we can't turn a blind eye to the fact that the "macro" factors could not be worse -- interest rates have risen massively over the last year and used car prices rose tremendously over the past few years due to many factors (my dealer was willing to buy back my Macan for more than I bought it for at one point). Used cars have already to started to fall and will likely fall further. Even if he can pull it off, it isn't the best financial choice to buy a hugely expensive car at a time of peak prices , at peak interest rates , when used car values will generally decline, and the model itself may decline very significantly if it follows all the V8 models that preceded it for last 50 years. Add to that that a slowdown or recession is likely, and companies are laying off large number of people after a long period of not having enough workers. These are, to say the very least, not normal times.

I did see that he has friends with Ferraris, but that feedback is not going to equal the brain trust of Fchat. To me, he should have come to Fchat with a thread about why he wants to buy a 458 -- to find out if it is the best model for him, what it will cost to maintain, better guidance on appreciation or depreciation of value, etc. If the result of that thread is that the 458 is the car for him, he will get a lot more support on figuring out how to finance it (not to say that he hasn't gotten that support in this thread).

To me -- and I know he didn't mean to do this because I believe he couldn't be more sincere -- he came onto Fchat and said "I know everything there is to know about the 458, so don't ask me any questions, just tell me how to finance it". He got pretty good feedback considering that approach. My opinion is that he should take a step back, outline why he wants a 458, listen to the advice -- then go into his own financial analysis with better data and with an Fchat group that "gets" his mission and wants to help him make it happen.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think that the best 458 model for him might be a new Corvette C8 .

We don't know if the OP is buying for investment, or to drive the wheels off of it, because he hasn't shared any of that info. If it is the former, he could buy a new C8, drive it a hundred miles a year, and sell it 10 or 15 years later at a premium as an ultra low mile car (safer bet than profiting off a 458 with more accumulated interest/maintenance expenses). If he plans to drive the wheels off of it, he will have a full warranty, fewer issues, much less expense, impact to credit, risk, ...

Again, none of this is to discourage the OP, just food for thought. It's not like existing 458 owners haven't thought about C8's -- they have.

 

My advice is wait until you can buy one without financing it

 

Honestly, he'd still be in better shape than half the idiots that call his show with 6 digits worth of student loans...

 

I wouldn't really go for a 430 or 360 because of the many gremlins those cars have, over time the repairs will keep adding up and then eventually the clutch will come up or something will go wrong with the transmission in general (f1 obviously) and its just gonna be a massive headache and not a very pleasant ownership experience. 458 is reliable in general and while the DCT can fail horribly , its a lot better than praying the f1 doesnt fail horribly or eats up a clutch too fast (you can baby it but whats the point then, constantly being paranoid and scared to drive the car) ... OP whatever you do dont tie your house to the car

 

Throwing another vote out there for Lightstream. I have used them in the past, and with a high credit score, good home value / equity, retirement accounts, etc. the money is in your account in a day or so. No one to meet, nothing to sign in person. Granted, I'm not sure how this fits into his scenario. I originally wanted a Testarossa, then Mondial T, and what I found was a great and well-sorted Mondial QV Cab. Great classic driving experience. I had to refine what I was looking for rather than dive right in. Told my wife when the enclosed transport was a few minutes away. Still looking at a TR someday, and I like being able to have a second weekend car as I do now (US musclecar).

 

I disagree about the 430 comments. The later 430's 08 and 09 are not gremlin cars as long as they are maintained. They also have better clutch life due to transmission updates and have some updated electronics. It is not unheard of to get 20 to 30K minimally on a clutch which is only about 10K to replace. The 458 is not bulletproof, just more consistent in quality than previous cars because it is built more like a normal car with some automation and 3rd party major components (i.e. transmission). if maintenance isn't done on a 458, it will be as expensive if not more than a 430 because of complexity. The direct injection will need walnut cleaning about as often as a 430 needs a clutch which is a few thousand dollars less than a clutch but still not nothing if you want to keep the car running right. If the sensors aren't replaced in the DCT on earlier cars, you will need to spend for that, which is more than a clutch on a 430. I can go on, these are low-production cars and no matter what, they will never be as cheap to maintain as a Honda, Toyota or even a Corvette.

Now I didn't suggest in my previous posts to this thread for the OP to buy a cheaper Ferrari because for many of us the Ferrari that was the current model at a certain point in time in our lives is the one we want. BTW: I suggested a new C8 with a warranty because GM used a 458 as a benchmark so it would be closer to the 458 than a 430 would be.

 

The $140K of interest should be looked at as almost two years of his gross income!

 

As a young man I wanted to do something similar. My philosophy at the time was to make my car payment the amount of a house payment and minimize my living conditions so I could afford the car. At the time, I lived in a small, efficiency apartment and drove a Porsche 911. I kept the apartment small and moved on to a BMW 735i. You could sell your house, then buy the car with almost all cash or have a small loan. Rent a small apartment. That seems like only way to get it done.

 

Clearly the OP was legit, and turned off by the community. It's risky letting any part of the internet into your financial picture.

As a long time member, it is a massive bummer that most people here don't put their own opinions on personal spending aside in favor of just listening/answering the OP's inquiry.

I was in a position to buy a 360 in 2015 but decided not to because I didn't own a house yet, and I listened to people's opinion who I respected. Fast forward three years, bought a house, could have still afforded the 360 and maintenance easily, now they are $40k more and I'm unsure I'm willing to spend that much for one. My house has $200k in equity and a fixed 2.1% rate. More importantly though, a 360 is still missing from my garage. I should have bought it when I was single, and had it paid for by the time I married. I have many other expenses now I didn't have then.

Everyone takes different routes. Just because it's different from yours doesn't make it wrong. Buying a Ferrari is a dumb financial decision, period (unless you are collecting). It's more dumb if you pay cash for such a depreciating liability. But who cares which way you do it. It's an emotional decision that we all aspired to for usually, decades of our lives. It is a dream. Also, has anyone here seriously ever paid full interest on a car loan? I don't even look at the rate. I look at the payment and make sure it's below my worst-case scenario financial threshold, and then every month I make extra payments and it's paid for in half the term, sometimes sooner. This guy had the same plan and clearly with an 875 FICO score has made responsible decisions for a long time.

Three pages of posts and these two guys are the only ones who get it. When it's barely attainable is also when you learn, love and grow the most with it. Not offload it in four years for a new shiny thing.

 

I think he was sincere, and I think he got good advice. Far more people helped him with financing suggestions than you quoted, and those questioning the logic had his best interests at heart -- nobody was a jerk. He laid out his finances, but did not demonstrate his grasp of the operating/repair expenses on a 458 or his depreciation/appreciation expectations, which he absolutely should have to complete the picture if he didn't want to be questioned.

Every mid-engine V8 has dropped in value very significantly dating back 50 years to the 308 (which are only now have come up) have depreciated hugely. He would be buying at at the peak of the market (all used cars have been very inflated for the past 2-3 years) and, on top of that, the 458 will likely depreciate a LOT in the next few years unless it bucks a 50-year trend. The interest rates have tripled in the past year -- if this was a year or two ago (or any time since 2009) it would be a different story. Yes, he would pay it off faster than 15 years, but it's still going to take many years at 8.25% to pay it off. Buying a 458 at peak market, at very high interest rate, with no warranty and unpredictable repair costs, and unpredictable depreciation, on a tight budget? I wouldn't give a friend financing advice without asking questions to make sure he has everything covered, and I'm not going to do that with a stranger on Fchat either.

For those of you that did similar things, you didn't do it at a time of absolute peak interest rates, absolute peak market prices for used cars, and pre depreciation of the model you were looking at, and the cars you were buying were far simpler to DIY and less reliant on dealer-only equipment to service.

 

You’re getting good advice. 458 is a great car, but as others have said it is an expensive car to maintain and likely will never be worth what you’re paying.

I would never borrow against a home for a depreciating asset with potentially high maintenance costs.

Reread Peterp’s post.


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The 458 is the car you want -- whether it's a rational or an irrational preference (or both) -- I am in no position to challenge that.

Do not compromise into a cheaper, yet still expensive car you half love. That will surely bring full regrets.

Instead, you may want to take your time. As several members wrote we are currently at peak used car prices / high interest rates. And 458 Italia is a high-production car by F standards. So waiting is not entirely stupid.

In the meantime, FChat has plenty of info you can read calmly now about 458 ownership and maintenance. Those will prove valuable once your dream come true.



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Honest opinion and with all due respect, but at $150,000/yr you are not ready for a 458 yet without taking a huge risk..Also you even considering a 15 year loan is absolutely irresponsible, 5 years is the most you should ever go and with the confidence of being able to pay it off in 3...

If you really want an F-car why not go for a 360 or 430, then later on as your income grows move into a 458..

Personally i didn't buy an F-Cars until i was able to afford them in cash and had to wait till i was 39 for that...not saying that should be the standard, but for me thats how i did it.

OP: You should mention your age, how old are you?

 

Well Im not debating whether or not this is a good decision. I would never do it myself. But OP is not asking for advices on whether it's a good idea or not, he wants ways to finance his car. I thought this might be way, albeit a risky one.

 

As one of the few people here in his general income bracket, and having gone through this on multiple occasions, I would be doing someone a dis-service not to offer sound advice as I was given in the mid-2000s that was invaluable to my journey.

I would say the allure to have a aspirational car as a confirmation of success in a middle income salary bracket is very strong, and that pull can lead one into poor decisions that get manifested later. 15 year loan on a car? $140k in interest payments? Not smart financial decisions for a middle income person.