New MANUAL TRANSMISSION Ferraris-Doug Demuro

Not in the case of the 355 or the 360. Production wise, neither of these two in manual are rare.

 

What was the point? They sold over 50,000 cars there is apparently no market for. Or 4x the amount of cars Ferrari makes in a year.

That's just one car. Seems like -some- people still want one.

The only new car I've bought was a C6 Z06 (they were all manual).

I'll never consider another Corvette due to the lack thereof.

 

You sort of answered your own question…


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The other factor is that the F1 gearbox is typically considered inferior to the gated or dual clutch systems. The market seems to have voted, which may be why 550 prices are often above 575s.

We don’t have a direct comparison in the Ferrari world of gated vs. dual clutch in the same model because DCT was the evolution of it.



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Agree. Theyd sell a few dozen at best. Waste of time.

 

This is a simple ROI analysis.

Ferrari is not set up to develop and manufacture manuals, so it would require resources that are better placed elsewhere.

Think about the numbers that have been spit out here. What is the cost to dev and produce a manual for cars well over 500hp? Lets say $15m since someone else tossed that out.

That adds $150k to the cost of each of the 100 limited editions. Now how much does Ferrari need to add to make it worthwhile? Another $300K? So markup of $450k?

Will they sell 100 of them with that markup? Even if they do they just made $30m. Is that worth the hassles?

The ROI is bad. Simple.

 

Frankly, I think Ferrari would better off focusing on improving their build quality. They have come a long way, but…


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Part of Porsche’s success may be because they have cornered the market for MT. If you want a manual in a high-end sports car, you have no choice.

Again, we’re pissing into the wind. EV is game over. What will Ferrari be able to offer that KIA can’t?


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I didn’t like the design direction Ferrari was going anyway .

 

So the Corvette took the manual market from Ferrari? Unlikely. When given the choice 3/4 of Vette owners (unlike myself) took the crappy GM Auto and paid more for the privilege. That pretty much says it all.

 

No one claimed the majority prefer manuals.

1/4 to 1/3 (Z06) of the take is not miniscule. 10% is.

The market spoke, the more hardcore the sports car, the higher the demand for a manual variant. We're not asking for manual Romas here. One rear mid-engine will do .

 

High MSRP and service cost bragging rights for the insecure.

 

No I didn't say that. What I said was there must be a market for manual transmission sports cars if that many people still buy them.

Or is Corvette only a good example when you're quoting the wrong percentages?

 

My point is -- there is this "theory" that there are all these secret invisible "manual people" out there just dying for a manual car. That's complete BUNK. Yes there is a market but for a lot of auto makers they can't justify the expense, testing, certifications, fuel standards, emission standards, etc to justify the numbers. And in Ferrari's (and Lambo and Mac) the sacrifices to the engineering in making a version that goes both ways.

I don't like it but its true.

Who killed the manual? The driving public did.

 

One good thing about being a die hard manual guy is the money saved.

If Ferrari kept making manuals, i would be yearning to upgrade each time a new model is released…and living in a much smaller house.

Now that there is not much new that interests me, I’m content with what I have, and there is something to be said about long term ownership.

Maybe it’s a blessing in disguise. Regardless I’d be more than happy with Porsche gt4/gt3 when I’m ready for something newer

 

Rarity alone doesn’t account for values. 348ss is very rare, still not worth much. Values take into account the full package. F430 are the last, most powerful mid v8 produced avail with 6mt, reliable, beautiful, and sound great. That seems like a winning combo!

fwiw I would not want to buy a 348 or 458, but if u wanted to throw me the keys for a weekend, I would choose 348

 

I'm guessing you don't go to cars & coffee type events where car people stand around and chat. I've never heard anybody among car people praising F1, they live with it, but the vast majority of them would rather have a manual.

You have to be kidding me. The F1 and the manual transmission are nearly identical in every respect. The early F1's had identical transmissions except the F1 version had actuators for the shifters and clutch. The gear ratios between the two versions would be identical because there is no reason for them not to be. Testing, certifications, emissions, fuel economy are all the same because the transmissions perform identically (the only difference is that the F1 will shift faster than humans).

The public didn't have a say in the matter. When they came out, they were "new F1 tech" which was attractive, so people bought them in quantity. After living with them, it's less fun for many, and the reliability, maintenance, and repair costs can be insane -- so the novelty of having "F1 tech" has worn off for many. Less fun, and a nightmare to maintain, where do I sign? I've had 2 F1 transmission cars and I will never own another one because reliability and maintenance and repair costs have been horrible. It's a hassle to deal with F1, and it's a lot less fun to drive. Porsche figured out very quickly it was stupid to only offer F1 transmissions -- and that's the company that took a full decade to eliminate the IMS and two decades to fix the timing chain tensioner problems. Ferrari should figure it out also.

 

If I could afford a new F8 Tributo, my only wish would be that Ferrari would put in a center console shifter rather than the paddles. My Q 50 has one, and it feels Iike a three pedal car without the 3rd peddle. I like to have my right hand on the shift knob, it feels more engaging . My car has 7 forward gears and when I take it out of full auto, it becomes a semi automatic gearbox and its quite a lot of fun. I will keep my 328, and someday, I will buy a manual 911. As far as the Q50 is concerned, I can left foot brake, and shift with my right hand, thats pretty cool if you ask me.My shifter Karts have 6 speeds and no foot clutch, so Im constantly shifting with my right hand and braking with my left foot, and its an insane blast to say the least, Ferrari should start building cars that have the shift knob where it always used to be ....

Big G

 

I forgot to mention , Ferrari can also have an option to where you can turn off the auto blipper, then you would have to lift off the throttle between shifts . Now we are talking !!! lol How to I get a hold of Ferraris R & D dept, I think they should here about my idea !! lol I speak Spanish pretty good ,maybe I should learn some Italian !! lol

Big G ( the driver )

 

Personally, instead of building new manuals, I wish Ferrari would implement a program to restomod (for lack of a better term) some of the older cars à la Singer or Callum 25.

As much as I'd like to see new manuals - R&D, regulations, corporate leadership etc. etc. stand as barriers at this point. Why not take less-than-prime examples of the 400i, 348, 456, 360 - anything 25 years or older and give them new life for big $$? I think that would make the survivors more valuable while also providing the market with refreshed or converted manuals w/ some modern enhancements.

fwiw, I have a good friend w/ a manual Vanquish and his comfort level buying one was much higher bc the conversion was done by workers from the original factory

 

Doesn’t tell the whole story…..for example, the 355 F1 is much more rare than a MT……and the MT still is priced much higher.

Same thing going on in 991 GT3s…..the much less rare MT carries a premium.

 

No it’s not, they both suck, of course it wasn’t obvious when they were new.

How about my example of the 991 GT3? Does PDK suck too?

You got it handed to you in this case……

 

Dial R&D and ask for 1970. (The year, not the extension.)


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I think it's a different type of buyer who buys porsche gt cars, ferrari owners aren't interested in manual gearboxes and just demand outright performance

I agree about EV being game over, at this point it's likely ferrari will whore the brand out and start selling much cheaper vehicles

 

with porsche their customers went mad when they removed the manual so they listened and re-introduced it

ferrari is about power and performance and any cost with weight / electronics