Ferrari Commits to V12

Porsche proves you wrong. The most ardent porschofiles kinda forced porsche to still make manuals. Porsche is big in club racing and HPDE scene and 99% of those are 3 pedals as well. When Porsche simply took the 911 and made it 911R with 3 pedals take it of leave it every single one sold as soon as available.

Look at all the Ferrari guys taking 430's and 575's and converting them to 3 pedals. There is a market for real fully engaging sports cars.

 

I guess you are referring to the manual GT3. That car though is not in the same market segment as any Ferrari; it is much cheaper. The Porsches that cost Ferrari money are all PDK. Regarding design, it is in the eye of the beholder.

The track focused Porsches are all PDK equipped (GT4 RS, GT3 RS, GT2 RS etc). When Ferraris were offered with a manual no one bought them. This manual thing is just some kind of nostalgia, over in the US. In Europe there is no such trend.

 

You are wrong, and I come back new to Murray who sells all these slow cars, as you say, at such a price !

 

Yes, the market has spoken and more than 5 million for an F 50, not bad for a car that you consider outdated, at a time when SF 90s fill the windows on the second-hand market

 

It's mostly about the rarity and that Cosworth engine. The Valkyrie is a lot more impressive.

So what? An even slower GTO is 50 million. What does that tell us? Only that this are collectors' items and nothing to do with how good they are to drive. When new cars become 30 years old, they too will be worth a lot more, depending on rarity (if they are allowed to be driven anyway).

 

A collector's Ferrari is never beyond its driving pleasure !
You confuse emotion and pure performance.
Emotion is for a successful road car, and pure performance is for a track car that s not road approved.

 

I don't think it's fair to say that the market doesn't want a manual. When semi-automatic shifting came out in Ferraris, it was cutting edge technology and most sports cars on the road were manual. Things are a little different today.

Back then every little bit they could do to make a car faster, you could use on the street. Nowadays the cars are so powerful and high performing that you can't use their full potential on the street.

I think a lot of people have seen this and opted for a more engaging car that has a power band that you can use all of on the road. A lot of these analog cars are gaining value as a result.

I could see a v12 manual mid engine Ferrari performing quite well in terms of market reception. I no longer buy that they only use the V12 for special cars now that they put it in an SUV...

 

It would be nice if Ferrari started to plan for the future for those wanting a V12 in their car. Build a slew of modular V12’s under current regulations and crate them up as current year motors. Then for future cars, make some models modular enough, were an owner could purchase one of the “old” V12 motors and have it dropped in by the owner. Sure it will not be as fast as the tech at the time, but the V12 experience could still be there.


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Absolutely! A small market, but still a market.
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The huge delta in price in the used market between a manual and automatic version of the same model proves that there is a market for manual (look at the 360, 430, 575, 599).

No one buys a car because it’s 0.3 second faster to reach 100 mph. It’s the fun factor that counts

 

Post of the year

 

You need to understand that it is a matter of scarcity. If the F1 transmission was the rare one, it would be the other way around.

 

Yes to V12’s
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That didn't go so well for the 355

 

Not true


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True enough. In Europe they don't have much of a difference anyway. Americans and their manuals...

 

it's about the driving experience, people want to have a modern version of the driving experience of the mclaren f1 which is what gordon is setting out to do

he's making a usable driver focused car, he doesn't care about performance as this isn't a track car and is designed for emotion/fun

 

Ummm it's been that way for about 3 decades.

 

Lotus investors may argue differently

 

Well roughly 500 built for an f50

 

In those it's the collectibility. Save maybe the 360.

599s in a stick actually kinda suck. It's the rarity not the driving.

430s aren't that good in a stick either. You can tell the focus was the f1 cars. Little care and development for the 6 speed cars.

 

I’d be curious to know the difference you felt in driving the MT 430 vs the last pre-F1 designed car, the 355.

 

From my experience...

The 355 feels natural and the 430 stick feels added on or converted (no the cars I have driven were not converted) it's great and the involvement is there. It just doesn't feel like... cohesive. It feels it was done and never finished. It's not as "slick". I understand these are all terms that don't have any quantitative meaning... It's hard to explain.

People love them. I always look at those people and wonder if the people are looking through rose tinted glasses.