2024 Ford Mustang

I agree mechanically is probably great.
The styling aint no mustang, and the interior looks like a Hyundai inoiq, asthmatically to me its a major miss. Maybe theyll pick up some euro crowd, but the failure of the camor was attempting the same thing.

As for saying new cars all have tv screens. Moist new cars are not mustangs, with sticks and rumbly V8s, the interior shoudl reflect what this car is( a 400z does this interior well).
If dodge could do a great interior for the electric charger( they understood the emotion)

Today a Mach 1 is the prck if you wnat a great street car and something thats pretty great on track, a challenger does not really do track, and the camaro is better on track but not such an appealing road car. Yes this new mustang will be a relatively inexpensive way to do a track capable car, and will be more than fast enough on road, it will have the v8 rumble, good suspesion and brakes, its just missing the look and interior look, and frankly thats why many buy these cars.

In the past i would have bought a Mcah 1 over a zl1 simply because the mustang was a more subjectively appealign car, now I suspect its the oter way arounbd as the camaro performs better and the mustang looks like a Mitsubishi audi camaor with ionic interior.. I think the camaro may be geteting more sales and once the bloom wears off they will rush a redo on the mustang. What were looking at may be a very good car, its just not iconic or a mustang. Not the forst time ford messed with it, and its better looking than the 80's and 90's mustangs I guess.

 

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No love for the GT350/350R? or too high dollar? Do you see many being run? >>> You hear that motor, you know what it is.
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I have tremendous respect for the dynamics of the 350 series cars. the motor does not really turn me on that much. Two for engineers have separately told me the same thing. Namely to make a flat plane crank work with such large displacement and not vibrate itself to death ford had to use massive counterweights, thereby negating one of the major benefits of tthe flat plane crank ie the ability to rapidly rev. yes it still has some superior breathign hence the higher hp, but at the prce of low down Tq, which in a +3500lbs car is a defecit.

To me the Mach 1 has all the good suspension bits from the Gt350 plus the upgrades from the 500, all with a bent crank v8 which sounds great. the hp deficit is simply not that much and easily covered by a good driver. Id say the Mach 1 is the pick of the litter.

We'll see how Gm makes 5.4 litres of flat plane work. To me the whole sound thing is a bit of a gmick if it does not have the other benefits.

On the subject of sound most moderns with valved exhausts are gimicky, either quiet or once the baffles open clown car loud, not really tonal and on shift they sound like flatulant. Its all faked as the cats really limit things and none of them sound like a great 60s car, be that a camaro or ferrari.

I'm so tired of some self impressed dip, flooring his Maserati, vette etc, you can hear the baffles open, lots of noise and then on shift a giant fart.

Seems like to pass noise laws cars have to be a bit too quiet, and then the baffles open and its just noise. Listen to the opening scene of the origional Italian job, thats how a motor should sound, hear an early pre cat 70s camaro roll by, thats sound. Moderns breathing though cats and passing drive by noise laws are too quiet, and to compensate they have valves that open on the xhaust at heavy throttle settings unleashing way to much noise, its either or.

Motorcycles are similar, from the factory they sound like diswashers. But the aftermarket exhausts, mostly they're noise. A few like termingoni have it worked out with tone, free breathing but not lous for loud sake. In harley land the screaming eagle exhausts breathe well, have tuned puleses for power, are louder than stock but not obnoxious.

 

Maybe with the new stang ford is trying totarget all those late 20's early 30s people who go for audis and BMW M series. Im guessing current high spec stang buyers are an older demographic

 

I've had a GT350 for about 4 years now. The flat plane crank is a hoot on the track (I drove one of Ford's, not mine) but I'd largely say that while the steering and brakes are great on the street, the motor not so much. It does sound great, and it does rev, but it lacks torque down low, and as the revs climb there are some weird resonance/vibration issues that come and go. I does sound freaking phenomenal for a factory exhaust, and I love that it has a manual. I'm in no hurry to get rid of it but also could, at a moments notice, if something else became available (like a GT500 at sticker).

 

My guess is that ship has sailed since it is unlikely that there will be a 23 model.

 

sounds like an acurate assessment.
I think a flat plane crank in a 4.0 works better than in a larger motor.
a 4cyl is Basicaly 1/2 a flat plane v8, we used to think a 4 cyl was good around 2.0 maybe 2.3. I forget what the last 944s had but they used serious balance shafts.

modern 4cyl outboards go to 3.0 but they have serious balance shafts and are not fast revers.

all of which to say that the 500hp of the 23 stang in a bent crank may be really the way to go. It will have ample power and great low down tq for street driving. Add to that an improved platform with better handling and what’s not to like besides the styling and interior.

it’s funny they used to say that USA cars had power but crap brakes and handling. Today cars like mustangs Camaros and some cadillacs handle and stop great, the build is decent too.

if you want a road car that can track for under 100 or even 75k the USA is pretty much it.
Maybe a m2 also? But the USA cars are going to be way more economic on parts.

let’s see how long it lasts,
My bet is a lot longer than we think, I can see a 2030 v8 mustang. It’s niche but a Great one no reason to Abandon.

while I think we’re a long way from an electric car being able to hack it on track for more than a few laps, on road they will dominate performance. One only needs to look at the Dodge Charger concept (reputedly close to production) to realize electric cars can be emotive and iconic.

I read amg has said if there is a market they will continue to build v8s. Porche is even going so far as to Develop carbon neutral liquid fuel so they can keep building gt3 s etc.
No reason for USA to abandon the v8 which is our national engine, doesent have to be in every car but it has a place.

 

I completely agree. But I remain open to random luck.

The other advantage (I think) is that the bent crank V8 takes a blower better than the flat plane. So if you buy it, and decide you need more grunt, it is easy to come by. FWIW, I drove a standard 5 liter before the GT350. Even it seemed like more of a high RPM motor than a stump puller.

 

yeah the quad cam b8 sim the mustangs don’t have the same low down tq as a pushrod 2 valve motor like chev still builds, but the camers can rev smoothly. It’s a great way to spilt the difference.

 

I've daily driven Mustangs for just short of 20 years. I've had a '71, '99, '06, and '17. They were all V-8s. I swapped the '17 out for a brand new MX-5, which is a car that has remained true to its original design and hasn't been bastardized, unlike the Mustang. You can probably see where I'm going to go with this, and I'm not going to be humble...

These new cars (the less said about the Fat-E, the better) have little to nothing in common with the original pony cars from the '60s, which were meant to be modestly sized, sporty 2+2s, with a little more than enough power to be fun.

These new cars are bloated, bromdingnagian monsters that eat tires in 5000 miles and have become complete parodies of themselves with nonsense like drift mode, remote rev, and usb outlets in the ceiling for go pros. I mean holy crap, why not just have it come with a ****** nozzle you can wear on your head when driving and call it a day?

How about a small-block V-8 making 350 horsepower, a half foot taken off of every dimension, and a half ton diet that modernizes and refines the S197 aesthetic with a super balanced chassis for V-8 Mustang's swan song?

Nope, we got another cookie cutter muscle car with unnecessary levels of power that looks like the love child between the Challenger and Camaro for meat-headed overcompensating **** swinging contest dorks. If the Mustang is going to continue down this design path, I'm happy the V-8 is dying. Give me a '65 K-code or GT350 over this abomination any day.

 

This is the way of the world. Similar wishes are made on Jeep forums for a no option, no carpet, bare necessity electronics version of (now) the JL Wrangler. But crash test requirements, profit margins, and many other things contribute to car bloat.

 

I get that, but the MX-5 has gained less than 200 lb. since 1990.

 

mostly this. and for good reason.



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For me ... that nausea-inducing, video-game screen dashboard is an absolute deal-breaker. No way to avoid looking at it, every day all day, from behind the wheel.

 

Yep that kills it for me too. We'll I could probably out a paper bag over its head if the rest is really really great on track. Even still a screen dash is all sorts of cop outs and I woulsnt live it daily. But then mustang interiors have imo been the worst part of the car since the 70s. If nissan can do a modern yet traditional interior in the new z, why cant mustang. Im speculating that in the end screens like key fobs are simply a cheaper option, and one you can Bs the customer is a benefit.

look at HVAC systems in some cars, no buttons cause its way cheaper, then customers complain and they add buttons back in a hasty redesign. car companies can really mess up sometimes.

Ford may get away with it, because come 24 the mustang will be the only rumbly v8 pony car on the market. Challenger dies Dec 23 and camaro Jam 24. Wouldn't be the first time those two companies abandoned the pony car either.

 

I know i'm old, and i'm no longer the "target market" for most car makers. But honestly, there's just not that many things you need to do behind the wheel of an automobile, other than focusing on driving. I'm not a fan of touchscreens in general, and I just don't see the need ... in a car.

But it's worse, for me, than simply "not needing" a touchscreen (never mind 2 or 3 of them). It actually detracts from the driving experience. I just don't want to scroll through a dozen menus, reboot an operating system, and download a new app just to change the fan speed

but that's just me ...

Here's what's not "just me": more needless functionality also leads to higher failure rates and less reliability. More complexity = more things to break

 

No it's many of us. I'm super happy with analog gauges and buttons.

 

The build and price tool still needs some serious work as half of the options don't show up on the car and some of the configurations are wrong (base Dark Horse with leather seats versus cloth on the Premium, etc.). Either I'm getting old, inflation is out of control, or Mustangs have gone up significantly in price, because I have a hard time accepting a $60,000 Mustang GT. Granted, that was pretty well loaded, but still...

I don't mind a digital dash, but the IMAX screen spanning half the dashboard is out of control, and like others have said, some functionality should just be relegated to buttons. I don't want to have to look at a screen to adjust the temperature or fan speed. I don't mind a center touchscreen for navigation and such, but keep basic functions off the screen.

 

Youre not alone, and it seems most gearheads including the young agree. Honda went to an all touchscreen car o the civic, and had to recant in year two and redesign. I think its a cost cutting thing because everything is driven by a computer, so an actual function button just adds some small cost. Plus cars are mostly designed by engineers and they just get wrapped round the axle with what things can do and complexity.

To me there is tech that can enhance and tech that can detract. Starter motors, electric windows evn ps, not to mention fuel injection and electronic ignition are examples of tech that can enhance. Given that we are in the computer car era, being able to setup a car to ones liking, for example steering feedback, brake sensitivity, nanny intrusion etc is tech that can enhance, esp if tis a simple button selection and you can do your own custom map, like say sport throttle response and road suspension hardness.

Tech that detracts, as you say menues for fan speed, and in general dash dominated bya screen. Amongst other things its a poor and cheap looking aesthetic, a crime in a pony car which by definition has a more classic vibe. Dont even get me started on the subscription model. In reality most communication/nav and tech we have on our phones, all that's needed is a simple screen to interface. Fan speed temp, radio etc, thats buttons. There is even a study of the safety aspect of buttons as it boils down to muscle memory and is far less distracting. many of the so called saftey tech that seems toi abe added to cars these days, 50% of buyers don't want it, and that tech is dumbing down driving. interestingly insurance companies see more claims from a car with the etch, cause dumbass aint Watchung the road.

But once a car has a screen, adding the tech is probably a program more than hardware so the margins are huge.

its like the now mandatory sunroof, which no one uses. Dont even get me started on the ridiculous glass roof which you have to have on many cars if you want something other than a stripper.

Another crime, all those bug wheels, they add unsprung weight and ruin ride, yet somehow manufacturers think the market demands it.

back to the miata, yes its only grown 200lbs so it can be done. A smaller lighter more classic mustang with 350hp would be great. But iots all to easy for manufactures to take th lazy option , los of heft makes it easier to design, add tech for margin and to get suckers who're told its a benefit, some big shiney wheels for bling, then add lots of tire to contain that mass, add hp to make it work and fake some steering with eps. Its a winning formula from ferrari to ford.

For a price porche has it right with the Gt4 and Gt4 rs, 3000lbs wet, but those cars cost $$$ and you cant actual buy one without falling on your knees blowing dealer and paying 75k over. Maseratri shows how not to do it. the MC20 looks great, it even has a cf tub and minimalist interior, yet weights 3700lbs.
But you know most of the market doesn't care, cause all the market really sees is 0-60 1/4 mile and how fats the car can do one lap, and the truth is with enough power and enough rubber bloat dont matter, at least for 1 lap.

the era of the sportscar with rare exceptions is long gone. We are in the ra of Gt cars masquerading as sports cars. Well proche backorder indicates there are still more than some customers who really get it or maybe thats even just badge thing and the great machines is a bonus. At Toyota you can get a Gr corola, and Honda makes the civic type R which is supposed to be superlative. Mustangs and corvettes used to be for the youth market, now its the same customer but he is 60-85. Plus given that minivan mom is now in a 5000lbs suv rolling along looking at her phone, having a hefty sporty car might be wise for many.

Imagine a Miata with one of Mazdas superlative v6s in it.

my bet is within 2-3 years the mustang will have a classic guage pack.

 

Accept the video game display/screen or look at electric alternatives. It's the only game in town with an American V-8 and manual box. Nitpicking will not help.


Chevy and Dodge will no longer show up with any N/A or supercharged products with a 6spd manual.

 

Nitpicking? It's more than that, if i throw-up in my mouth every time i sit behind the wheel come to think of it, a little vomit dripping from those screens might help (couldn't hurt, right)

Let me have my rant, will ya (even though i know you're right)

 

Yet honda with the civic type r has a "normal" looking dash as in its not an elongated tablet. The Instruments in that admittedly youth car can still be viewed as classic analogue round dials or digital race car.

point is even if you must, a digitized dash can still be pretty good and emulate classic features. There is simply no excuse for the bad/ cheap looking design of the mustang dash, especially as by definition a mustang is a subjective emotive car and its design elements should reflect that. Its like the interior team didnt realize what a mustang is and were designing the mach e dash. Smacks of gimmick cheapness to me, the digital dash and talking car didn't work in the 80s after the buzz wore off. maybe a sucky tablet dash works on a tesla and even then thats the worst feature of that car.