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Mercedes F1

Discussion in 'F1' started by NEP, Jun 11, 2018.

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  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    I wouldn't know, as I don't follow Netflix, but I take your word for it.
     
  2. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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  3. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    mathieu Jeantet
    classic308 and Bas like this.
  4. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That's the kind of letter Ferrari could have posted every year for the last 15 seasons, no ? :D (I know I will get some flak for that)
    Very dramatic and theatrical, but totally unnecessary, IMO.
    His team finishes 5th and 8th, and immediatly it's Armageddon. Toto needs to be put on suicide watch, methink.
    A F1 team that fails is never that tragic; another takes over and the world still goes round.
     
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  5. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

    Jan 10, 2009
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    Simon Ashley
    He is trying to get the team back to the front and take action, contrast with Ferrari.....
     
  6. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
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  7. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

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    It's like a Dad talking to his spoiled brat daughter for not giving her a 2023 BMW, instead she got a 2019 BMW.

    Nobody should ever question Mercedes' will to win, or doubt they will do everything necessary to achieve that. A letter to their fans should be unnecessary. But I guess when their fan base is crying over a 5th place result after having the best car for 8 years, then something has to be done. So ya, embarrassing might be the correct word.
     
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  8. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,923
    I just read it again. Nothing embarrassing I see. Mercedes/Lewis have been known to communicate to and acknowledge their fans. I see this as a positive practice. If Ferrari acknowledge their fans more I would say the same. I read it as they are saying only the best is expected ( or 2023 Bmw as you put it). That's how a team should be. Anyway, its fine if others saw something embarrassing.
     
  9. Mosin

    Mosin Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2021
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    Tom
    Its quite common these days after a poor season in alot of sports, even more so at Football clubs who seem to do it weekly...

    I would guess it depends on how much a team respects / appreciates / wants to interact with its fan base.

    Ive been to my local club twice this year for them to appologise for performances on the pitch. had a letter about the tea lady too...

    Can just picture the letter PSG or Bayern would write if they finished 8th respectfully in stead of 50 points clear in first.
     
  10. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Bayern says nothing and then increases prices lol
     
  11. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

  12. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Would think this applies to more than just Mercedes. The essential deficit for most is 1sec to RedBull. That is to equal the gap. Passing that is another effort.

    Mercedes: Not realistic to be beating Red Bull this F1 season
    Mercedes says it is not realistic to believe it can close down the gap to Formula 1 rival Red Bull this season, but insists that will not stop it trying.
     
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  13. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
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    I somehow doubt anyone can beat RB this season especially with the cost cap in place. The only way RB can lose this season is, if they self implode
     
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  14. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Just over a year after their gloating at a late double retirement from Red Bull.

    How the turn tables.
     
  15. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Explains driver muted pre test running reactions

    Mercedes knew limits of W14 F1 car concept before Bahrain
    Mercedes knew even before it arrived for Formula 1 testing and the first race in Bahrain that it needed to change approach with its car concept.
     
  16. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    RB will need to read the "How To Self Implode" manual, as published by Ferrari.
     
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  17. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Hmm...that certainly wasn't what they said before the first race.

    Mercedes-AMG PETRONAS F1 Team on Twitter: "*W14 entered the chat* https://t.co/s8uRXjzL7d" / Twitter

    Toto Wolff: Lewis Hamilton has a Mercedes ready to win world championship again (yahoo.com)

    I said it for a while now and I'll say it again: They spend so much time blaming all their woes on porpoising/bouncing, they became convinced that it was the root of their problems. It never was. Ferrari was the bounciest of them all last year and were the fastest prior to TD39. Last year it was an excuse, now they just look silly.

    Their biggest problem is drag. Tyres are the biggest contributor to dirty air. Going zero sidepods looks cool and all but the theory didn't work in the early 90s and still doesn't work today: Physics doesn't evolve. Not saying that normal sidepods are the fix they need, but you need to control airflow properly. The aston Martin and Williams certainly have no top speed issues.
     
  18. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Formula 1: Mercedes will not bring major W14 upgrades until Emilia-Romagna Grand Prix at Imola in May
    Mercedes "know where they are heading" but will not bring major upgrades until Emilia-Romagna Grand Prix in May; Toto Wolff warns "not to expect a miracle"
     
  19. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    The updates will be RedBull-esque. They have no choice as they face another 'lost' season. Last year's win was more down to set up issues for RedBull than outright Mercedes pace/momentary flash of brilliance.

    They will not win a race this year is the feeling right now. They are draggy and lack downforce.
     
  20. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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  21. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

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    Brilliant! and true!
     
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  22. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Nice assessment of aero and seating position with a focus on RedBull and Mercedes impacts. Nice graphics from Piola!

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/explained-the-facts-behind-behind-hamiltons-f1-cockpit-complaints/10455712/

    Giorgio Piola's F1 technical analysis

    Explained: The facts behind Hamilton's F1 cockpit complaints
    In Australia Lewis Hamilton revealed the Mercedes W14's too far forward cockpit position is at the heart of why he doesn't feel as comfortable in his 2023 Formula 1 car as team-mate George Russell. Here's a look into the reasons why that may be the case.


    By: Matt Somerfield
    Apr 13, 2023, 11:16 AM
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    Mercedes has openly admitted that its 2023 W14 has failed to live up to expectations, prompting a course change on its development programme to recoup some of the performance that it had expected to make up on its rivals this season.

    However, it has become clear that the car also harbours some fundamental design flaws that cannot be corrected during the season and will require a more significant overhaul as the team prepares its next challenger. The cockpit position appears to be one of these issues, with Hamilton critical of the approach that the team has taken with the new regulations so far.

    "I don't know if people know, but we sit closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers. Our cockpit is too close to the front. When you're driving, you feel like you're sitting on the front wheels, which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you're driving a car," he said.

    "What that does is it really changes the attitude of the car and how you perceive its movement. It makes it harder to predict compared to when you're further back and you're sitting closer, more centre. It's just something I really struggle with.

    "I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said that we should go. Had I known the feeling that I would have in it, it wouldn't have happened. It has to change for the future. 100%.”

    The team has clearly made changes to combat the ill effects that porpoising and bouncing had on its drivers last season. However, the position of the cockpit has not moved, as it would have required even more of an overhaul in terms of the car's layout.

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    Mercedes W14 middle wing detail

    Photo by: Giorgio Piola

    That’s because the decision on where to place the cockpit has a knock-on effect up and down the car, with weight distribution, suspension and aerodynamics all affected in various ways. And, given there’s been so much focus on Mercedes' decision to pursue the ‘zeropod’ concept, perhaps we should start here, as the upper side impact protection structures (SIPS) have been housed within a mid-wing on both the W13 and W14.

    Longitudinally the upper SIPS have a 50mm window in which they can be fixed, but that’s also dictated by the position of the cockpit, resulting in the structures having to be placed further rearward if Mercedes had opted to shift the cockpit further back in 2023.

    That would also result in changes to the sidepod design and might well have led to the total abandonment of Mercedes' current scheme. Instead, the team made some concessions regarding the sidepod inlet, which has been narrowed, increased in height and pushed back relative to the W13.

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    Mercedes W13 and W14 side comparison

    Photo by: Giorgio Piola

    The position of the front axle is also a factor in the corresponding feeling that Hamilton gets from the W14, which is a decision that’s driven by regulation and requires the axle to be within a 100mm longitudinal window behind the front bulkhead.

    For comparison, Red Bull’s already more rearward cockpit position not only places its drivers further from the front axle, but it has also created more space in the area beneath the driver, allowing it to take some of the electronics and other ancillaries usually housed within the confines of the sidepods and place them under the chassis instead.

    This has the added benefit of opening up more options in terms of the sidepod’s design, with Red Bull able to increase the size of its undercut compared with some of its rivals.

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    Red Bull Racing wheelbase RB18 and RB19 comparison

    Photo by: Giorgio Piola

    Notably, while Mercedes hasn’t made changes for 2023, Red Bull has, with a new front suspension arrangement that places the front axle further forward than it was on the RB18.

    It’s unclear if this represents a countermeasure to the tyre changes made by Pirelli, which aimed to reduce the understeer that the front tyre generated in 2022, or a general improvement compared with the position the Milton Keynes team favoured on last year’s challenger.

    However, it is clear that it will have a bearing on the behaviour of the car and also alter the aerodynamic relationship that the wake turbulence generated by front wheel assembly has with the front wing, floor and sidepods.

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    Cockpit comparison Mercedes W14 and Red Bull RB19

    Photo by: Camille De Bastiani
     
  23. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    The merc seating is almost identical to the Aston and Ferrari of this season..
     
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