355 Spider top will not open / It closes no issue

Which post?

When you say it closes using the normal switch, do you mean from all the way down (after putting it down with the emergency switches)? I'm not sure if the final stage of closing (using the secondary rams) requires all the operating logic. I'll have to check my car.

Because the roof is operating with the emergency switches, you know that
1) the motor and hydraulics are ok
2) the up/down relays, fuses and park brake switch (in theory) are ok

There is an internal switch in each primary ram (S1 and S3), which shuts off the motor 1 second after the roof is fully down. If these switches are faulty and telling the ECU that the roof is already fully down, then maybe the motor won't drive the roof to the down position.

Perhaps you could do resistance checks on the switches (at the ECU plug). The signals come in on the small (centre) plug.

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The A6 wire is yellow and the A3 wire is yellow with a black tracer (hard to show on this kind of diagram).

(EDIT: Check these switches with the roof NOT fully down to see if they are faulty)

 

I think it all depends on how the ECU was programmed by the factory (or whoever worked on it last with a Ferrari SD1 tool).

Sorry, I had to make a few amendments in my message. I don't know which version you saw. My roof theory is getting a little rusty.

 

As another example, here are my potentiometer readings (my meter doesn't measure above 4.5k ohms if I remember correctly)

Passenger (fully aft)
red-black = >4k ohms
red-yellow = 924 ohms
yellow-black = 3940 ohms

Passenger (fully fwd)
red-black = >4k ohms
red-yellow = 4329 ohms
yellow-black = 543 ohms

Driver (fully aft)
red-black = >4k ohms
red-yellow = 576 ohms
yellow-black = 4218 ohms

Driver (fully fwd)
red-black = >4k ohms
red-yellow = 3742 ohms
yellow-black = 1028 ohms

(Seems I was using the car harness wiring colours rather, rather than the potentiometer wire colours)

 

Is that your video? The ECU is the black thing next to the relays.

 

I'd rather start from the basics. People often say that their problem is the same as others, but if you did deeper, they are not.

You are looking for an earth or an open circuit on those ECU pins. i.e. Depending on the accuracy of your meter, less than, say, half an ohm (closed circuit) or infinity (open circuit... or OL on some digital meters).

Can you drive the roof down with the emergency switch, then try to move the roof up using the normal switch. If the roof is going up (normally), then it means your seat potentiometers are ok. Seat position is important for down and up. As I mentioned before, the last stages of closure may not require seat position logic (that's why your roof is closing normally)

 

I'm reading the other post now...

First comment:

After rechecking the wiring diagrams, the "lower microswitch" (at the bottom of the left hand primary ram slider) only affects window operation. It's the previously mentioned internal microswitches in the primary rams which determine the stopping of the motor when (going down).

More reading to do...

 

Actually, after looking at your photo (white plug) and the wiring diagrams, I realise that the colours I quoted earlier are actually my potentiometer colours (which are different from yours).

Are these your RH seat's plugs?
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Also, I have a RHD car. I'm not sure if the seat wiring is the same. i.e. is my driver's seat wiring the same as yours or does the wiring not change left to right. It's hard to tell the colours of the wires from your passenger seat plugs.

Are the colours (top to bottom):

Grey/yellow?
Black/blue?
Black

If so, these should be the passenger seat on you LHD car, according to the wiring diagrams

 

I haven't yet checked the colours on my car, but your car side colours do seem to match my wiring diagrams.

I did check roof operation, however. The secondary rams do work without the seats being fully forward (i.e. the final closing stage doesn't require seat logic). They did need the parking brake set, however.

Maybe I'm overlooking something, but I'm still not 100% sure from your messages that your roof will close with the normal roof switch from the fully down position (or at least down enough to require primary ram operation). The primary rams do need seat position data.

 

That is my understanding. Thanks for the confirmation.

So... now the bad news.... I would check the pins on plug A as mentioned earlier. If you have an earth on these pins (sockets), with the roof NOT in the fully down position, you have a primary ram problem.

I have the feeling that the previous owner had a major issue with something expensive, so converted the car to manual ops. It's looking like a ram internal switch issue, wiring issue or an ECU issue.

 

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I would confirm pin numbering by looking at the wire colours.

 

If the issue does turn out to be an internal switch on only a single primary ram, that will give us another piece of the roof logic jigsaw puzzle. I'm not sure if the pump stops running if one ram reaches full extension or both. There are time delays for certain actions, so it makes it hard to tell what is happening.

You may want to check the ram fully extend and fully retract switches (in the primary rams) at various roof positions with an ohmmeter, but the fully retracted switches seem to be operating normally. The operation of the secondary rams are dependent on the primary ram fully retracted switches.

For checking the extend switches, use the emergency switches to position the roof. You will get the signals at the ECU plugs (car side) from the rams even with the ECU plugs disconnected.

For info, the LH ram fully retract switch signal is on pin 5 (of plug A). The RH ram fully retract signal is on ECU plug B pin 13.

Plug B (uppermost 20-pin plug on the ECU) shown below:

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Even though it makes sense that "roof up" logic requires fully functioning potentiometers, I'll try to think of a way of taking the potentiometers completely out of the equation.

When you lowered the roof with the emergency switch and then brought it back up again, where were the seats to start with when the roof was going up? Were they almost fully back and drove forward normally when you used the console switch?

 

Correction... (slip of the tongue) I meant to say that the secondary rams do work with the seats being fully back. That might make more sense to others following this thread.

The diagnosis remains the same.

 

Electrical power or hydraulic power?

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For opening, the pump (F) feeds fluid into the RH primary cylinder (A). The RH piston moves, displacing fluid on the back side of the piston (which is forced into the LH cylinder(B)). The F1 valve remains closed to pressure (relaxed)

I don't fully understand the operation of those overpressure valves

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Electrical schematic here:

https://www.dropbox.com/t/tbCyqH1OjovwGUlz

Link expires in 6 days

 

Sorry, I must have missed the second half of your message.

I don't know what's easier. Returning the roof back to a manual version or wiring in a switch. A fellow FChatter ( @Carmellini ) did rewire his roof switch to bypass the ECU, but it was quite involved. A temporary switch may be easier.

An SD2 or SD1 tool may be able to help, but I can't be certain. It would probably tell you if you have an internal ECU issue.

I would just carry out those basic resistance checks to see if your ram switches work. It won't be difficult if you already have your car in pieces.