Oil change engima | FerrariChat

Oil change engima

Discussion in '308/328' started by ducowti, Mar 31, 2023.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. ducowti

    ducowti Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2008
    1,553
    NY/SC
    Full Name:
    David
    First, I've done at least a dozen oil changes on my 328 (and dozens more on other cars), so I'm well-versed in F oil change nuances, always been straight forward/no issues. However, here's a first for me on a new-to-me 86 Euro:
    Dipstick showing just over min. I drained about 4.5q and let it drip 20min. Plugged it, added 3.5q from one container, then 4q from a fresh one and checked level. Dipstick showing what would probably be 12+q, 3 twists up the stick. Removed the plug again to drain some of the potential overfill, and only trickles come out.

    Started it up for 5 seconds, shut it, waited 20' to check level, still showing nearly 2 twists up the stick, yet next to nothing is draining w.plug removed. WTH? Does it just need MORE time to drain down?!

    Thx.
     
  2. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,517
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Aren’t you supposed to wait 15 min after shut off? And it should only take about 8.5 qts maybe 9. The capacity in the OM will say more Because that’s if you’re going to tear your engine apart or rebuild it.
     
    Dane likes this.
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,035
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    I hate to suggest this, but only getting 4.5 qt out is something that would happen if you removed the gearbox drain plug (which is marked "CAMBIO") and not the engine oil drain plug (which is marked MOTORE). Additionally, getting nothing out of the same (CAMBIO) drain plug again after adding a bunch of engine oil into the camcover would fit with that, too...
     
  4. ducowti

    ducowti Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2008
    1,553
    NY/SC
    Full Name:
    David
    It's been a spell since I changed either, but as I recall (and that may be my issue) the gear oil drain is farther under/towards the front. My eyes have deteriorated such that I can't see close with my contacts and I couldn't read clearly, so while I know about those being stamped as you noted Steve, I didn't check bc I was pretty sure I was in the right place for motor oil.

    I shall double check which is which. And will be quite chagrined if I messed that up :0
     
  5. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,035
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    No, the (wide) gearbox reservoir is rearward of the (narrow) engine wet sump = your memory was the mistake ;).
     
    absostone likes this.
  6. pappy.72

    pappy.72 Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2010
    516
    Elgin, IL
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Transmission sump is in the back.
     
    waymar and Dane like this.
  7. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2002
    6,370
    Toronto / SoCal
    Full Name:
    Rob C.
    I'm fairly certain you drained the gearbox and not the engine sump. Don't feel bad it happens more often than you know. While you are at it re-fill the gearbox with Redline MTL. That oil is magic on these gearboxes.
     
    mike996, waymar and Dave Bertrand like this.
  8. ducowti

    ducowti Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2008
    1,553
    NY/SC
    Full Name:
    David
    Holy crap I'm a dumbazz...drained the gear oil as Steve thought. Occams razor - should've known when it was taking so much oil!

    Thanks gents.
     
    moysiuan and Nuvolari like this.
  9. Brian A

    Brian A F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2012
    3,079
    SanFrancisco BayArea
    Full Name:
    1983 US 308 GTS QV
    I finally gave up and bought magnifier safety glasses from Amazon. They are awesome.
     
  10. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,685
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    I sympathize! I Did EXACTLY the same thing myself last year with my 328. I have owned it since '08 and have done all my own oil changes without previously draining the wrong oil sump!
     
  11. s219

    s219 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2021
    411
    Pay attention to your nose. The smell of gear oil is unmistakable compared to motor oil. You should be able to tell them apart blindfolded!
     
  12. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,035
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    True for GL-5 gear oils, but the GL-4 gear oils (which can be used in a 308/328) aren't as smelly.
     
  13. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Sulfur is a very common anti wear additive in gear oil. Its expensive and some companies use it more than others.

    It has always amused me how Ferrari marks the drain plugs in the 308/328. Motore is kind of obvious but the trans is marked "Cambio".
    Ferrari uses it in many places to refer to the transmission but in reality it is the verb 'to change" (well OK, I am changing the oil). The word for transmission is Transmissione.
    Even if you speak Italian it can be confusing.
     
  14. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2002
    6,370
    Toronto / SoCal
    Full Name:
    Rob C.
    Cambio is a very correct Italian word for the gearbox. Transmissione is a more technical term but it is no more or less correct.

    It is a little like 'blu' and 'azzuro' both of which refer to the colour blue even though if you are really specific azzuro refers to light blue but the terms are generally considered to be interchangeable.

    Italian lesson for the day :D
     
    absostone likes this.
  15. s219

    s219 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2021
    411
    It doesn't help the way the gearbox and oil sump are cast/unified together, and there could be other confusing signs such as where the shift rod enters. Without reading/knowing specifics, I would guess which is which based on knowing the transmission sits to the rear of the engine, but there might be scenarios where that could confuse someone too, especially if they are used to traditional modular engine/transmission layouts.

    I do a lot of work on farm tractors where it's common for oil pans to be divided or have a hump/tunnel to pass shaft(s) underneath (for FWD or PTO), so there are often drain plugs on each side. Or bottom and side drain plugs to allow for different engine installations -- a common-use diesel engine could have tractor, generator, and marine applications. And marine may need to accommodate keel cooling which adds complexity. There are usually multiple dipstick locations on the engine, all measuring the same oil level. Transmissions might have multiple dipsticks or sight glasses, or both. Finally, there are maintenance requirements to change filters but not fluid in hydraulic systems. It can all really confuse the heck out of customers.
     
  16. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    6,685
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    "Cambio is a very correct Italian word for the gearbox."

    My wife, who is Italian, says that "cambio" makes no sense to her as a word for "transmission." But she has no knowledge about car repair/maintenance. Maybe it's a common Italian word for it among Italian auto mechanics/enthusiasts? Sort of like American engine builders understand "bump stick" is a camshaft but nobody else does.
     
  17. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2002
    6,370
    Toronto / SoCal
    Full Name:
    Rob C.
    As it happens last week I was testing an LMP3 car at Cremona (just outside Milan) and later Paul Ricard with an Italian team and we had a technical debrief on the transmission and our ratio choices and the term 'cambio' was the predominant one used as we discussed some issues in Italian.

    There is no doubt that Cambio is more of a specialist term which would explain why your wife may not be familiar with it.
     
    mike996 likes this.
  18. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    #18 Rifledriver, Apr 2, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2023
    No one is saying its not correct, it is not by any means universal even in the car business nor is it specific. Other Italian cars I have worked on used Transmissione for transmission and reserved Cambio for the shifting mechanisim. Italian mechanics I have worked with, and its been quite a few did the same. So have the Spanish speaking mechanics come to think of it. Even at Ferrari service school at Maranello.
     
    Nuvolari likes this.
  19. Portofino

    Portofino Formula Junior

    Sep 17, 2011
    564
    Yorkshire UK / Switzerland/ Liguria ( Italy )
    Full Name:
    Portofino
    #19 Portofino, Apr 2, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2023
    I interpret cambio as exchange ….thinking in Eng , change of ratios , gears .

    Also I get the shaft shifter is in front Fwds entering what could be a g box ,making the engine sump the back one .Back one is also 2 x the surface area .But and it’s a big but the drive shafts sprout out of this bigger rear back one .

    The Motori is the give away for me as well as the exchange / changer thingy for cambio .

    Having said all this I can see how easy it is to get into a muddle even after yrs of experience wrenching on theses .

    Also G boxes , diffs etc tend to have a filler approx 1/2 way up any casting .It’s customary to undo the filler first before opening the drain plug and dropping the oil .As we know the g box has a rear filler 1/2 ish or 4 inches up it’s casting .
     
  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Wanna be confused? Try German shop manuals. I read just enough German to get really F'd up.

    Lichtmachine? Its a Generator. Literally light machine.
     
    mwr4440 likes this.
  21. steve meltzer

    steve meltzer Formula 3

    Sep 18, 2004
    1,036
    with Enzo 8995
    @ducowti thanx so much for putting your dilemma out there....after 35 years it's nice to know I'm not the only guy who pulled that stunt!
    My then GF, now wife of 30 years, had just bought a brand new Camry and (arrogantly) I told her it was a good idea to change the oil/fiter after 100 miles, and I would do it. At that time, I had done many oil changes including a 930, and my own, earlier model Camry. Sure as hell, she got about 3 miles from our apartment and the car broke down. I had quite successfully drained the auto trans, and added about 4-5 quarts of oil to the engine! Maybe she flashed some cleavage, I dunno, but the service manager did the repairs under warranty!
    Whew...all my ex-wife's lawyer needed was to see that I'd spen several thousand bucks on another woman's car!
    steve meltzer
     
  22. steve meltzer

    steve meltzer Formula 3

    Sep 18, 2004
    1,036
    with Enzo 8995
    Well, this topic has me primed to do my first oil change on the 308 I bought last summer. It's a '76 Euro, dry sump car. First question is: are all Euro cars "dry sump" and is the opposite true? Second, is the dry sump drain plug what I've indicated in the attached picture? (I assume it is from my past experience with dry sump cars).
    thanx steve
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  23. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,035
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #23 Steve Magnusson, Apr 5, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2023
    No, that's the drain plug for the transfer gear case reservoir.

    On a dry sump 308, you would remove the drain plug 43, or the temp sender 32 (if it doesn't have a drain plug), on the oil tank:

    https://www.ferrariparts.co.uk/Diagram/Ferrari/308-GTB-GTS-Carburetor/015-Lubrication-System-(308-Gtb)

    and the drain plug 67 on the engine sump pan:

    https://www.ferrariparts.co.uk/diagram/ferrari/308-gtb-gts-carburetor/023-gearbox-differential-housing-and-oil-sump-(308-gtb)

    (50 is the gearbox reservoir drain plug -- don't remove that one ;))
     
  24. steve meltzer

    steve meltzer Formula 3

    Sep 18, 2004
    1,036
    with Enzo 8995
    WOW! glad i didn't proceed on that near fatal assumption!
    Thanx for the very specific info! Much appreciated. steve
     
  25. Sergio Tavares

    Sergio Tavares Formula Junior

    Nov 15, 2018
    841
    Full Name:
    Sergio Tavares
    Change as the gear does is correct
     

Share This Page