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Phill Hill Cuba 1958

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by teegeefla, Apr 8, 2023.

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  1. teegeefla

    teegeefla Formula Junior
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    #1 teegeefla, Apr 8, 2023
    I have been looking into the infamous 1958 Cuban Grand Prix where Fangio was kidnapped by Castro sympathizers, and my curiosity centers on the Ferrari 335 chassis #0700 that Phil Hill drove wearing the number 8. The car had changed its color since its previous race at Nassau several months earlier from a dark color (blue?) to a white paint scheme with a three-colored stripe. So far I have failed miserably to find a color photo of the car to determine the colors of the stripe, which also seems to widen to cover the entire nose (see photos below of the car with copyright Getty Images).
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    I don't have a copy of Joel Finn's Caribbean Capers to refer to and my FChat and other internet searches have come up empty. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Tom
     
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  2. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 Marcel Massini, Apr 9, 2023
    White with blue and red stripe, entered by George Tilp.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  3. Aardy

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    #3 Aardy, Apr 9, 2023
    + tonneau cover and number "8" in red colour + big orange Shell sticker on the each side of rear wings...
     
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  4. teegeefla

    teegeefla Formula Junior
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    #4 teegeefla, Apr 9, 2023
    Marcel and Aardy-

    I appreciate the help and details. I know this is a big assumption, but is the stripe that continues from the engine cover down the hood, around the number and surrounding the front grille red or blue? I found this cockpit shot of Hill and it looks like the red is on the drivers right and the blue is on the left. Once again photo copyright is Cahier/Getty. Thanks.
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  5. teegeefla

    teegeefla Formula Junior
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    #5 teegeefla, Apr 9, 2023
    I have some additional information to help in my original post concerning images of the Phil Hill #8 Ferrari 335 at the Cuban GP in 1958. I have been told that Phil Hill's 3-volume career retrospective "Inside Track-Collector's Edition" has two color photos of that car in Havana...but I do not know anyone who has these books and the price is far beyond my budget. So if anyone has these books please help me out. Thanks.
     
  6. Aardy

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    #6 Aardy, Apr 10, 2023
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  7. teegeefla

    teegeefla Formula Junior
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    #7 teegeefla, Apr 10, 2023
    Aardy- Excellent find!!! Thank you.
     
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  8. ERA

    ERA Karting

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    #8 ERA, Apr 11, 2023
    Could this picture seen here and there on the web without copyright and the wrong caption (Phil Hill 1961) been shot on that very same race? Additional question, which car is behind?

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  9. GIOTTO

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    #9 GIOTTO, Apr 11, 2023
    I think the white Ferrari is #0498M.
     
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  10. teegeefla

    teegeefla Formula Junior
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    #10 teegeefla, Apr 11, 2023
    Regardless of when and where, that is a superb photo that captures drivers from that era.
     
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  11. Aardy

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    #11 Aardy, Apr 11, 2023
    "CM" = SCCA race...
     
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  12. readplays

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    #12 readplays, Apr 11, 2023
    exactly. CM = C Modified. Ferraris of that era also sometimes appeared in sports car racing class D Modified in SCCA races.
     
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  13. GIOTTO

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    #13 GIOTTO, Apr 12, 2023
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  14. Timmmmmmmmmmy

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    #14 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Apr 13, 2023
    I believe Ed Martin in 750 Monza #0498M while it was in 860 Monza powered form at Virginia International raceway in October '57. The car behind is John Kilborns 290MM!
     
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  15. DWR46

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    #15 DWR46, Apr 13, 2023
    I was pretty sure the car in the background was John Kilborn's, but was not sure of the venue.
     
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  16. GIOTTO

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    #16 GIOTTO, Apr 14, 2023
    Yes, Virginia raceway in 1957.
    Yes, #0498M with n°97CM at Virginia in 1957. But no entry for Phil Hill at Virginia.
    The photo with Phil Hill is another race and maybe he's not sitting in #0700.
     
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  17. Timmmmmmmmmmy

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    #17 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Apr 14, 2023
    It should be possible to do a list of Hills 1957/58 races and cross reference those where #0498M also appeared. There cannot be that much crossover and it would narrow it down a lot! Especially as the car is clearly a silver one!
     
  18. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

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    #18 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Apr 14, 2023
    I know of no other car with the tape on the door that #0498M had, I also know of no silver cars other than John von Neumanns and he seems to have really picked up his racing efforts in mid '57 and eventually ran Hill from late '58 but by that time #0498M had been retired from front line competition and only raced in Courtland and other tracks in the south East so there is seemingly no crossover, or is there?

    IF #0498M and Hill are established, cross checking reveals that

    - 625TRC #0680MDTR was delivered to John von Neumann in mid '57 and raced at Laguna Seca by von Neumann, #0498M was racing on the East Coast (apart from one trip to Nassau in late '57) and never ventured to California
    - 335S #0700 was sold to JVN in late '58 by which time Hill was only returning home for the off season (and front line events) and #0498M was no longer racing in front line events
    - #0710TR was delivered to JVN for Nassau in '57 and painted Silver but driven by Ginther, #0700 and #0498M were present!
    - #0744 was only delivered to JVN in October '58 and painted Silver at that point but the same issues as #0700

    It is likely that #0710TR was tried in practice by Hill at Nassau before he raced #0700 in the main races, otherwise cannot find anything else that fits!
     
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  19. Aardy

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    #19 Aardy, Apr 15, 2023
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  20. GIOTTO

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    #20 GIOTTO, Apr 15, 2023
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