My EAG conversion to DrS conversion

Very good that we have other options. Just seems a bit anticlimactic since besides lack of always clanks the EAG stuff is alright. I will report what I can in this thread but it seems any bad stuff was fixed along the way.

Trev's work is amazing. Changes the car 110% I can tell you that because I declined that work as part of EAG swap. I later paid more out of pocket.

 

The 2009 F430 has a lot different HW than an 05. The F1 is different and the car has lots of other changes. I think Trev should be able to put a tune together that gives you better throttle response and make the engine run better than stock, even better than the stock 2009 430 for your 2005, but there isn't much he can do to make it shift like a 2009 since the actual HW is different, it's not just software or an ECU swap.

 

Thanks for the explanation! I have been holding out for 2008 or 2009 because of what people like yourself have been stating, i just needed to be reminded. Thanks!

 

While there where extensive change to the 2009 MY one of them was the inclusion of an extra gearbox sensor and modified programming in both ECU and TCU.

The net result is improved shifting performance, better clutch life and better clutch kiss point. The extra sensor allows measurements of point of slip so instead of approximation algorithms and a setting of PoS (point of initial slip during setup ) it affords continuous measure and adaptation of slip point. This is the way it should have been from day one. This should improve the clutch life span and overall take up.

And yes if the extra sensor and wiring was retrospectively fitted I *could* upgrade the firmware to support it on both TCU and ECUs thereby giving any model year the 2009 spec.

 

OK, one more point of clarification please...

The important changes hardware wise from 2005 to 2009 are mainly F1 related?

I would consider a 2005 F1 at their lower price point and convert it to a Manual and add 360Trev Software upgrades.

The Total price would be close or less then a well sorted 2008/2009 F1 with the bonus of having a 3 pedal car.

I would not convert a 2008/2009 F1 to a Manual.

I like the F1 when its working properly.

 

As with all Ferrari's of the same model, the later ones tend to be better 'sorted' from the factory. You could say the early adopters are the beta testers, just like in many other worlds. So, while earlier ones may be cheaper, they will often come with their 'own' challenges and parts that got revised and corrected as the model run went on.

An interesting artifact not often considered however is last model year models don't necessarily drive better (despite being improved in many significant ways). Many late cars are actually performance blunted in an attempt to comply with ever more stringent emissions standards (for example) which overlap with the incoming replacement models.

Despite being rare I have actually converted quite a few 2009 MY cars from F1 to gated and they drive just as well as any other F430 conversions, curiously though in the case of later cars none existed as factory gated cars from the factory. By that point Ferrari had already given up on production of gated cars (by 2009) so isn't straight forward for instance to convert a 2009 MY to gated anyway without my bespoke software to generate one as it manages all of the differences automatically. You cannot just cross flash it as no equivalent firmware ever existed, just like a gated 430 Scuderia didn't exist from the factory either. This is just an example of 1 of the many many edge cases that make this a minefield of work to get 100% perfect across all assembly numbers, vin's and engine configurations. Its why I spent so much time researching in order to do it properly and not grossly mess up someone's loved pride and joy.

And on the point of conversion, really once all the delays are removed, performance tuning is done on both tcu's and engine ecu's many people decide they want to keep it. It really transforms the experience once its working without lag and delays.

 

There are a few 2009 manuals that exist (I have seen one in person) but they are extremely rare.

 

Thanks @360trev very helpful. I'm back to either a 2008/2009 F430 F1 and leave it as an F1 or any year 360 Manual.

Either one I get will be updated by @360trev software, or at a minimum its software state confirmed by @360trev.

@tbakowsky basically on the path I updated you on recently. Let the fun begin!

 

This sensor and wiring may be all that is needed for a late 07, but there were other F1 changes including the pump from the 05’

There is a spreadsheet floating around of all the changes from a 2005 to 2009 and there were a lot.


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I was wrong the spreadsheet covers till early 2008 models, but here it is. I think the creators name was Mark. I know there were additional changes in 2009 as I have seen a few things that have changed when ordering parts.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachments/f430-assembly-changes-xlsx.2867248/


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Does anyone have EAG`s workshop address?

 

I have a customer here in South Afrika , that did 360trev ECU upgrade on his 360 spider . He can't believe how it has improved the F1 system operation and we still have the TCU upgrade to do .

 

Sorry for catching up to this thread so late, I'm busy with making and shipping DrS https://gatedconversion.com kits

There were some comments about centering the shifter level in EAG conversions by adjusting the cables. If it has worked well enough for the owner, that’s great! But to me, it is a tail wagging the dog.

The chain of commands is as follows: human operates the shifter in the tower/turret, that pushes/pulls the cables, which operate the actuator and actuator changes the gears. So the shifter should be positioned perfectly in the center of the 3-4 gear slots and without a wobble before we connect the cables and the rest. Not the other way around.

 

It's interesting to read that EAG has improved their kits. So to also piggy back on the @veilstylez request, could someone please post photos of the improved/current EAG tower and actuator/arms and comment if EAG has really caught up to DrS kits? I've read on another thread that EAG has hired a first mechanical engineer, so I'm guessing that should improve the situation with catching up (btw, several mechanical and other engineers participated in creation of the DrS kits).

At the same time I'm spending time helping people with upgrades from EAG. Just in the last 2 weeks I've got two inquiries about upgrading from EAG to DrS from high end Ferrari service shops (former EAG installers). So I'm thinking about creating and pricing a separate kit just for the upgrades.

But if the latest EAG conversions really approach the engineering and quality of DrS maybe there will be no need for such upgrades in the futre. So could someone please post photos/details/explanations of the latest parts? Without that I will just assume that EAG has not matched DrS yet. Thanks!

 

I imagine that might be a long wait since wouldn't only folks that have issues take the EAG apart? My F430 is in the sky at the moment since got a more recent fun project to play around with.
I do plan to check for the shavings brought up. Any other things to snap a pic of in the rear bottom? (I can do once I get parts from Eurospares) I have been awaiting the new black brake filler cap and mistakenly hung up my oil change parts on that one for shipping.

 

I'm thinking brand new, latest design parts, before being installed and with indication on how they are improved and solve the past issues

 

"The Clone Wars"

... As they say competition improves the breed. Its ultimate conclusion is hopefully to provide better kits and better prices for end consumers.

I just pray we don't fall victim to reducing the prices SO much that quality and longevity suffers. That would completely suck, I hate replacing my bathroom taps every 5 years when Victorian taps where made in the 1800's and still going strong. A Chinese Axe vs one made in Europe. See which one lasts..

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For instance I fairly recently got sent pictures of several upcoming new entrant to gated kits market place, designed for the 360/F430 kit and straight out of China (see above for one of them) which looks interesting and its entirely CNC machined from solid billet. Back to the longevity points though, I don't know if they've actually hardened all the important areas where wear could appear in as quick as 10,000 miles of driving if not done properly. Only time will tell. Also looks like they may have cloned (the current market leader by volume) 'EAGs' pedal too or at least 3D scanned it. I see this happening more and more.

Plus, already we now have 24000rpm on here knocking out 3D models too and open sourcing them so maybe at some point there will be a complete "Open Source" gated kit for the 360... ?

And yes, this kit is targeted to be considerably cheaper than anything else out there today including Dr.S.

Other than garages converting cars using OEM Parts (and there are many converting cars now such as Exoticar, Universal, AV Engineering, DK Engineering, to name just a few) none of the aftermarket kits yet have enough miles on to be considered 'passed' the test. I'm sure some EAG cars must have passed 10k by now but doubt others have yet had time to be 'proven' in this regard.

Only time will tell...

 

Over 10k on my EAG-kit and works just as lovely as day 1.

 

Fantastic. Great to see people enjoying their gated experiences!

Only real world testing and lots of miles actually 'proves' whether a kit is good or not in the end. Its why manufacturers spent considerable budget on so much real world testing and why they need to manufacture in such large bulk quantities to get a return on their investments.

I for instance on all my software upgrade work have taken the exact same rigorous engineering approach, that is before signing off any work I ensure I have done extensive testing.

This includes in both road and race conditions, traffic (heat soak), cold and hold weather, humidity, dust, cold and warm start and good old fashioned lots of miles testing. So many people cut corners on real world testing and it comes back ultimately to bite customers (even manufacturers from time to time!). I just don't feel most people really understand how harsh a car environment can be.

 

There are $20,000 Rolex watches made in Switzerland and $200 Rolex watches made in China.

Same Rolex logo, same look to most people, both measure time more or less the same way.

Which of those watches is more popular among Ferrari owners?

 

The fake Rolex is targeted at people who don't own or want to own real Rolexes. The conversion kits are all targeted at people who do own real Ferraris. They just happen to have different pain points or expectation for the modification going into their cars. $12K for a DrS kit, or $6K for a HangZhou special? Frankly, I don't really know what I would do for my own car.

Very different market, but I understand the sentiment.

 

I rather have the HangZhou special than the EAG set up. LOL

 

While each will only be as good as the design, tolerances, R&D, etc. I find it comical how the metal stock option is the most expensive, the cast option is the middle ground, and the billet option is the cheapest. That makes literally no sense lol.