308 GTB with no history

Hi all, Looking for help as I heard a neighbour of mine is looking to sell a 308 GTB, which is a car I have been considering getting as a companion to my 360. The car has been in a barn and off road for a long while and been modified for the track, roll cage etc. Only had a five minute chat with the owner, and haven't viewed the car, but I believe he has taken over ownership from his father and he doesn't have much knowledge of the history, so before I start down the road of viewing and discussing money I thought I would do my own research and try and find out as much as I can. Hopefully some of you very knowlegable people can help out.
Details are;
F 106 AB (308 GTB)
DGM 15346 0M
Motor F106A 021
Chassis F106 AB 20773
UK Registered new August 1977
Now on reg number GEP 667
Colour on log book Gold.

Thanks in advance
Regards
Paul.

 

That car is actually listed on the 308 GTB registry at https://308gtb.de/serial-numbers/ . You could email Robert who runs the site and see if he has any additional info about it. Sounds like a cool find!

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Chassis rot in the U.K. damp air under the plastic body .Really check this on this version the vetroresina .

Get an Indy to look over it .My fear robust as they are in normal use a competition car might highly likely have been abused mechanically .It’s gonna need a full recommission in a how longs a piece of string ? Could easily chew through £10 K in the first year .Belts , valve shims , water pump , alternator, various pulley oil seals , cam cover gaskets , sump gasket ,shift shaft seals , fuel pipes , carb rebuilding.Brakes , callipers refurb , cooling pipe rubbers . steering rack refurb , wheel bearings ……..Make that £15 K .


If it was running in regular use all this would have done in little dribs and drabs a bit every year .As it is stored it’s all deferred on .
Bills the same but £1K Pa over 15 years .

 

Im no specialist, but this car sounds like its shaping up to be a nightmare. With so many other 308s out there, if it were me, I would buy a car that has been sorted and is ready to drive. There are so many 3x8s that have had the entire history documented , so there are no surprises. A 4 valver is the way to go in any case, so theres that...Fiber glass is for the birds, its insane that they are worth so much money, they are pieces of **** in my estimation, buy a corvette if you want plastic. Ferraris are made to be wrapped in steel / aluminum .

Big G

 

At least a fibreglass car has better value than normal but with no MOT history who knows when it last was used - there's no such thing as a cheap Ferrari - let someone else extricate any value in this car

 

Get some images of what you are working with.

 

As Jenny said, "Run Forrest... RUN!!!"

 

Definitely proceed with caution!

Mike @ QV in Windsor has a lot of experience turning 308s into race cars and back and is super knowledgeable and pragmatic so would be a good source for issues and costs to restore to road (assuming that’s the plan)

Assuming nothing fundamentally wrong or massively modified I’d budget £15k as above to recommission as a total ballpark.

I have a plastic 308 and it’s lovely, but as others say this could be quite / impossible a project …..

J

 

Historically they were a bit lighter and I understand dry sump .
So in the 80s / early 90:s seen as better racing projects .Not just the weight saving but the potential cornering oil starvation issue .Hence what few were made were sought after in a supply vs demand thingy .
Those days are gone now fast forward 2/3 decades and 3#8;# are collectible classics investable cars .

Preservation and maintenance history are king .Different demographics of buyer .
Because hidden rust is a real issue ( damp salty roads uk ) and the weight + dry sump benefits sunk to the bottom vetroresina s are as some one has already intimidated are “for the birds “

Un less some sort of prehistoric , sorry historic class still exists whereby you can competition them ….successfully I might add .

Having said this there’s a dwindling supply of newbies entering the Ferrari classic market like the OP .The pool of potential buyers as guys in the twenties in the 70 s start dropping off the peg is shrinking.
Classic F car market is shrinking.

Those few newbies are more savvy as well .

 

Thanks for all the replies, this is why I posted on here before going to view. I wasn't after a track car it was more that it was local and I would have probably looked to return it to a more road useable car, as I haven't even seen it yet I was unaware that it was the Vetroresina version, the owner didn't mention it. I may still go and look just out of interest and will take some pictures in case they are of interest and report back.
Thanks again!

 

Would love to see it if you go. With vetro cars, the issues are almost always unseen. The frame around the windshield gets particularly rotten on these.

thanks for posting!

 

Hi Big G
Could not resist replying to your comments. I am the owner of a vetroresina dry sump 308GTB. I love it. Fit and finish of the fiberglass body in period was on a par with steel bodied cars. And as you are probably aware, as fiberglass ages with cycles of expansion and contraction you can get spider cracking in the paint. I also agree with the other posts that the rust issues with fiberglass cars can be more insidious as they are harder to detect. However, the engineering of these cars was every bit the equal of the subsequent steel bodied versions. The carbureted 2V engine makes good power and sounds glorious. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, which I respect, but realize you will get push back. Any car that is neglected/abused can be a potential nightmare for the next owner should they choose to dive in. Lastly, I hope you don't think that the F40 is a piece of ****.

 

I love the F40, I believe its wrapped in Kevlar and carbon fiber.

G

 

Only 154 UK RHD dry sump plastic GTBs made. Every single one deserves to be put back into service. They are wonderful cars and every bit as solid as a steel car. I’ve driven/own both and both are great. But the plastic cars are special. They are an iteration and a really great iteration in Ferrari evolution. I’d let price and condition be your guide. Have a expert look at it and one that can tell you what will be involved financially to get it back to where you want it to be. Budget 150% of what they tell you and 300% of the time frame. Have fun!

 

But not steel/aluminum. As you said, all Ferraris are meant to be bodied in steel/aluminum.

 

I should have excluded the F40 .. lol I wonder what the difference in weight would have been if the F40 was made in steel and aluminum.

G

 

Good question. My guess would be on the order of 300lbs +/-.

 

I would certainly be interested in seeing pictures. I have 20783 which is 10 serial numbers away and technically 5 cars away from mine as Ferrari uses only every second serial number. My car is steel and not fiberglass (vertroresina). The registry is wrong with a lot of serial numbers from this era so you want to check to be sure as it is likely a steel car.

 

For early serial numbers I believe that fiberglass vs steel car is dependent on delivery market. Mine is an early US car at serial # 20717, slightly earlier than the one in question, but is steel. I've seen lots of verified legit vetro cars online with s/n's after mine

 

And there are people who to this day, still think that only V12 cars are real Ferrari's.

Along with the F40, neither the 288 GTO, the F50, the Enzo, or the La Ferrari were "wrapped in steel/aluminium", but all are more than worthy of the name Ferrari.

Ferrari abandoned making the 308 GTB bodies out of fibreglass, not because they felt it wasn't proper for a Ferrari, but because it was just too labour intensive for them to achieve the quality of body panels that they required (when new, just by looking at the cars, with the exception of a slight seam on the A-pillar, where the fibreglass roof meets the steel A-pillar, or the rear lights on Euro-market cars, you would not have been able to tell if the cars had fibreglass or steel bodies)


For a better understanding of how bad a vetroresina can be underneath the fibreglass, take a look here:

(From 7:58)

(From 14:50)

Seriously eye opening! - And that is a car that had been well looked after!

Vetroresina's are valued so highly because they are a rare Ferrari - Not just a rare 308 GTB, but a rare Ferrari. They represent an important chapter in Ferrari's history, when the company looked into the possibility of making bodies out of fibreglass. That was a major change for an Italian manufacturer with a proud history and heritage of making car bodies in steel and aluminium.

Ferrari didn't experiment with the vetroresina cars for a bit of fun - Had they not been so labour intensive to produce to the right quality, chances are some, if not all of the V8 cars (and maybe all of the cars) would have been made in fibreglass from that moment on.

I wouldn't be as quick as some on here to dismiss a vetroresina car (especially if the price was "right" - i.e the seller didn't realise it was a vetroresina and sold it for the price of a steel car), but, you really need to go into it with your eyes wide open, and, with an expert to assess the true condition of the car (and as shown in the linked video's, even cars that appear to be in excellent condition can be hiding a nightmare!).

Yes, a quattrovalvole is a better car than a Vetroresina, but by that theory, a 328 is better than a 308, so why not suggest the OP goes and buys a 328 instead?

The fact is the 308 has a charm all of it's own, that is slightly different to the 328, and in the same way, a vetroresina has a different charm to a QV car.

My advice to the OP: If you do go and look at the car, try not to be blinded by the fact it's a Ferrari, and try to bear in mind that it's a Ferrari that hides it's nasty secrets really well.

Unless it is seriously/stupidly low priced, or you have incredibly deep pockets, be prepared to walk away - Buying a Ferrari purely on the basis that it is close to where you live ir very rarely a good idea!

 

The F50 / 288 etc were not plastic, I should have clarified that in my first post. Carbon Fiber / Kevlar aluminum mixture are much better than fiber glass . <My bad

Big G

 

Im glad that Ferrari did not stick with fiber glass, I dont care what anyone says, fiber glass sucks, the 3x8s are much better cars wrapped in steel. There is no way Ferrari would have ever considered plastic for the F40 and onward. The fact that the vetro cars are so costly is just another example of insanity in my estimation, only a fool would part with all that money for one, when there are so many beautiful normal 3 x 8s for sale. Have some scumbag smash into your vetro, good luck getting it fixed...And as far as the F40s and onward cars go, they will also crumble like a cookie, but it does not matter, they are all just fixtures in some pricks heated garage ... lol If I was rich enough to own and DRIVE my F40 , I would have a fabricator produce the entire shell out of steel and aluminum, the weight savings is not important to me. I would take the OEM shell and store it away.( other than the roof of course )

Big G

 

To be clear Big G, fiberglass is not plastic. The technology had been around for years particularly in the boating industry, and supplanted wood construction as the boat building method of choice. With advances in synthetic fiber technology, including kevlar and carbon fiber, the imbedding of these fibers in resin to form light, rigid panels simply took fiberglass technology (the impregnating/imbedding of glass fibers in resin) to its next logical evolution. Carbon fiber construction is now ubiquitous in the auto industry, providing lightweight, rigid, and strong components contributing to improved structural integrity and safety. Fiberglass was the progenitor of this modern construction. Fiberglass does not suck, in my opinion. Had the economics of fiberglass construction been more favorable, I do not see why Ferrari would not have continued with the use of this material.
What is your reasoning for stating that 3x8s are much better cars wrapped in steel? Whether steel or glass bodied, all 308's/328's share essentially the same tube frame construction, with body panels hung on. True there were horsepower changes with the various derivatives, periodic decreases followed by increases in performance, and updates in switchgear and ergonomics. To say that a steel car is much better than a vetro car seems to be a bit of an overstatement.
And I guess you can call me a fool for parting with my money to obtain a vetro car, but I purchased it 12 years ago for less than half of what it is worth now. I sought one out because of the rarity, because I wanted a Euro spec dry sump motor, because I felt/feel that the early 308 GTB is the purest iteration of Fioravanti's vision. Three-x-eights are not "normal" cars, whether fiberglass or steel bodied. They are all beautiful. We are all proud to own them.

 

The fools are the people who are paying what the industry says your car is worth today, not 12 years ago,Im glad you made a profit, I just dont see how anyone would pay for a vetro in todays so called market. I just dont feel like any fiber glass car is better than one shod in metal. If someone smashes into your car, I honestly dont see how it can be repaired back to factory . Its hard enough to find a proper body shop to repair a steel body, let alone a Ferrari with fiber glass. They are sub par, its that simple, Im not trying to aggravate you, but no matter what anyone says, steel is better , period. My 328 realistically should be worth 3 times what your car is worth, but for some reason, the powers that be say , since fiber glass 308 s are rare, they should be worth more money, I say thats ********...My 89 is the last of the run, its the best 3x8 ever produced, PERIOD !! LOL Plus the fact that I practically restored the entire car, you know, there are always more things you can do, but my car is mint and it has 105,000 miles, and should be worth 3 times what your car is worth , but its not, and it has nothing to do with what should be common sense , its due to complete and utter insanity...I will be in Ct in about 5 weeks , I will buy you dinner to ease the pain !! lol

Big G

 

Hang on guys we are drifting into the cul d sac of relative values and what a buyer is prepared to pay for a car .
It’s got little to do with actual usefulness , practicalities, performance in the Ferrari world .Think 246 GT / Earlier 206 GT s running about with Fiat shared V6 s .
Or the other side time line wise of the 3*8 s the 90 s 348 s .

As I said in the U.K. there was a strong racing circus , circuits and hill climbing in the 80 s and many were bought ( converted ) to compete .Dry slumped and lighter the GRP s attracted a premium because they were picking up trophies.A strong reconversion mkt to stock when guys finished too .

I think it’s this legacy that’s still imbedded in the F car community that had elevated GRP cars .

The Ian Tyrell vids are new to the community, new info to many on here inc myself and the market hasn’t yet digested them .
It’s a great car channel btw ck out the recent F40 for more gen background and snippets .

The few U.K. dealers holding vetroresina stock ( that have there own skin in the game ) won’t be at all happy about the inferences set out by Ian Tyrell in the public arena .

More informed car guys already know Lotus of the same period suffered chassis rot .Often requiring body off restoration.Also spider cracking of the paintwork due to heat cycle s .GRP cars undergoes excessive thermal expansion/ shrinkage = paint cracking .

Plenty of other brands of 70 s and 80 s GRP horror show cars going through U.K. classic car auctions .Reliants for example!

U.K. s history with GRP cars ( due to chassis rot in in its climate ) is poor . The paint finish spider cracking is just more hassle .