348 Engine revision/tuning plans

Too older technology, we are talking 30+ years old electronics and tech.
Some may like to go that way, but I'd rather use new fuel injector and ecu technology personally. Rather like the way the OP is going.

 

That was my conclusion as well. You can clearly see from the AFR graph that it's providing more fuel from 5750rpm onward, yet it doesn't bring any meaningful gain in terms of power/torque.

But my tuner was warning me not to jump to conclusions. He said the graph could also be read differently, that the injectors might be maxing out and therefore become less accurate and less efficient. Since the AFR is taken from the tailpipe, it might indicate a rise in unburned fuel due to the inaccuracy/inefficiency. If this is true, then the new injectors and a better map can provide gains.

Whatever the case, the next runs with the new ECU and injectors will give us more insights. I'll keep you posted.

 

In my experience a wideband is accurate whether or not the injectors are maxed out. For example if 80% duty cycle or 110% it will read correctly.

I may have missed it, what ecu did you decide to go with?

 

Haltech Elite 2500. Here's a picture of the work in progress:

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The original diagrams were obtained and plotted:

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However, it turns out the diagrams are incorrect... So now the wiring must be resolved using a deterministic approach (test & check each wire). That's why it's taking much longer than anticipated. But there's still confidence it can be done.

In the meantime, here's a gratuitous picture of me driving at the Zandvoort F1 circuit last year that I discovered on a website last week :

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I'm curious to know what was wrong with the factory diagrams. Some 348's have the relay coil power/trigger wires swapped. I think the engine diagram also had some splicing variations. Also, there were some 7 pin injector rail plugs not shown in the diagrams.

Here is a diagram based on input from various folks for the 2.7

https://www.dropbox.com/t/hQI3SYbyFdY4XEmx

The injector rail plugs are not shown, however.

Euro cars perhaps have less anti-pollution gear.

 

Many thanks for the diagram! I've forwarded it immediately to the guys working on the car. It looks like it contains more info and some different lines than the one they're currently using. Hopefully, this will help them along.

I don't know exactly what the problem was with the factory diagrams, but they explained to me they would attach the first few wires and test them, and found out that after 3 or 4 wires there were already inconsistencies. So they could not be sure that the diagram was entirely correct.

 

Most diagrams for cars of this era are incorrect, there are never any we've found which are 100% correct, and we have done a lot of afteramrket ECU's mostly on Japper cars, some Euro's like Beemer and so forth, but its all the same really.

At the end of the day it is easier in a lot of ways to just wipe the slate and either make your own loom, or just pin out the factory loom.
What I think a lot of people wont realize is a new computer wont use even half the crap in the factory loom.
It will be a much simpler setup in some ways....Ferrari in all their wisdom (lol) decided to follow a very old school convention by using two complete separate fuel/ignition systems which thankfully, they eventually did away with on the 355....
So yes, there will be a bunch of stuff that will be completely redundant once they've finished your car.

It seems to me like these guys doing this job are right on point with everything so far, I wouldn't even bother offering new diagrams, they will be more happy to start from scratch, less problems and they will know where to look if there is a problem.
Relying on diagrams which may or may not be correct can be a waste of time.

I still haven't ruled out doing this to my 348, not necessarily for more power, but for reliability and more efficiency, there are so many things about these old ECU systems that are going to eventually come to haunt us with random issues in the coming years.

 

@Kasimir I hope everything is fine for you. Any progress on this project?

Many thanks and best regards
Antonio

 

Yes, but less than I hoped!

About a month ago there was good progress, with the correct signals arriving at the new ECU. There was RPM and throttle position, I believe. But once they attempted to start the car, somewhere a circuit closed and the ECU went up in smoke... Since it was completely unclear how or where this could happen (all pins were attached correctly, yet on one of them voltage started coming back), it was apparent this could become a much harder and more perilous approach than anticipated. The biggest problem is the chance of smoking the ECU at every single step, then taking weeks to get a new one and make a new attempt - not even considering the incurred cost.

So 'Plan B' was devised, which is creating a separate loom for the engine and hooking that up to the new ECU, while the original computers take care of the rest. This is perhaps not as neat as a direct replacement of the original computers, but does still have the advantage it can be easily converted back to original. Also, since the new ECU will be in the engine bay (I have the battery in the front, so there is a nice little cavity to hide away a little black box) it will be easier to work on.

The new cables and plugs have been ordered and last word is that most of it has arrived. When everything is complete, it should be relatively easy to hook up, and then hopefully, it'll work and the ECU will not blow out again!

 

Nothing is ever as easy as it sounds, best of luck and push forward.

 

Hi Kasimir,

many thanks for the update, I'm very sorry you are facing these issues, your project is valuable for mantaining in good shape our 348s for the coming years.

Cheers from Italy

 

Oh man, how annoying!!
Did it fry the ECU did it?
My plan is to not use the factory loom, there is a lot on the loom that won't be used so a new custom loom makes the most sense.

 

A little update on the project: the new ECU is mounted in the car and all the wiring done! Next up is ECU programming and testing.

The ECU is mounted on the rear left wheel well, the location where in early 348s the battery is located (mine is up front so there's a nice big space):

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The cabling - note the usage of correct Ferrari style metal clips with rubber inserts:

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With the cables tidied a bit, you have to look closely to see the difference vs. stock:

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In the picture above you can also see the original heat shields are removed and replaced by a custom made Inconel heat shield. Above this, the 512TR airboxes will be mounted, replacing the current single airbox. Since the dual airboxes will mount towards the sides (tubing from the engine will make a 90 degree turn and then straight to the airbox), the middle part will be unobstructed so from the back you'll get a direct view at the plenum.

I'm quite excited to finally get to see it up and running with the new ECU, and then of course get it on the dyno to tune it and add the new parts (not only the new airboxes but also the new injectors).

Another thing is the bucket seats. The seats are ready to go, but when trying to figure out how to do the seatbelts, it was clear that three point seatbelts weren't going to fit, or only in a very awkward way. So we decided to get four point seatbelts. The only problem is: there are no mounting points for four point seatbelts on a 348. They did make mounting points on the Challenge cars, but that was done by drilling through the firewall and then welding the points in place. To do this, you need to take out the engine (so for factory Challenge cars, they did this before they fitted the engine, obviously).

Since it's a lot of work and also a bit adventurous to do the drilling and welding (you also cannot revert it to stock at a later date), we made a different plan: behind the seats there's a piece of trim that is not flush to the back of the cabin. This cavity is just about big enough to fit a horizontal bar, extending to the original seatbelt mounts in the left and right corners - kind of like a strut brace.

This construction has been measured out, modeled and CNC milled. We're now making final adjustments and getting the trim pieces modified so it looks as if it's absolutely stock (it will look similar to 360 Challenge cars with little 'letter boxes'). Then the Sabelt seatbelts can be fitted, these are the same ones used on the 360 Modena, with the 'Sabelt' logos replaced for Ferrari ones so it will also look stock.

That's it for the moment! I'll report back when everything is hopefully up and running

 

This has been a really interesting read, especially because I’ve been thinking I’d like a modern ECU in my car when it’s here.
Excited to see the outcome. Good luck!

 

Nice tidy job on the wiring, great attention to detail.
My only comment would be, I wouldn't have mounted the ECU or anything else on the fiberglass wheel liners, its a convenient option doing many things to these cars to be able to remove the wheel liners for easy access.
Also they are not what I would consider as a strong structural part of the car to mount something like that, they are only held in by a few self tapping screws, and they are also pretty lightweight.
I would have build a mounting bracket or mounted it inside the car as per the factory ECU's.....

Looking forward to seeing how the tuning goes......although I'm not looking at doing this to my 348 now as I am going to sell it to buy another Ferrari.....with 12 cylinders...

 

Yes, the original plan was to have the new ECU in place of one of the the old ones (and then store the old ECU), but now we need to keep the old ECUs because the new one only handles the engine.

We did discuss making a 'black box' to keep the new ECU in and then mount that box somewhere in the area where the older cars have the battery. But the ECU is already a box itself, so it seemed easier to just mount that. I did not contemplate the mounting location, the guys working on it decided the wheel liner was the best location since that's farthest away from rain and dirt. I don't expect it will be too much of a problem structurally, since the ECU is pretty light, it's basically a plastic box with a PCB in it - nothing compared to the Bosch ones with the big heatsinks.

 

At least in my 1991 TS the location where you installed the new ECU collects fair amount of water and dust even if I try to drive as much as possible only when sun shines and on the fully paved, dry roads.

I would personally consider some kind of mounting rack and an IP67/IP68 ECU enclosure with appropriate heat dissipation mechanism to go with your otherwise very clean and tidy installation.

And of course, I am waiting you start to "mass produce" the F119 tuned Haltech conversion kit complete with harness and all!

 

You got it, I'll put your name on the list!

Honestly, I still worry it won't make any difference in the end. I have to trust the tuners and they're pretty confident, having done 'advanced tuning' on all sorts of cars, also on cars of similar vintage (I think I mentioned the Ghibli Open Cup somewhere in this thread).

Out of curiosity, I looked up the IP rating for the Haltech. Turns out it's IP67. So it shouldn't pack up at first rain. We'll see, we can always go back and elaborate on the current solution.

 

I wouldn't expect either massive gains on any meaningful performance parameter but the ability to get rid of MAFs and to log live data for troubleshooting purpose are already wins in my book.

 

@Kasimir amazing project and promising results! Very much looking forward to the final setup, just subscribed to the thread. From the looks of it, I might even consider paying you guys a visit in the Netherlands Cheers from Switzerland.