355 - Exhaust Bypass Valve Solenoid Wiring | Page 4 | FerrariChat

355 Exhaust Bypass Valve Solenoid Wiring

Discussion in '348/355' started by Copperhed51, May 6, 2023.

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  1. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    I agree that this doesn’t make sense. My high resistance values appear good. My low resistance values do not. Your values have me scratching my head, especially if everything on your car is functioning properly. I don’t want to throw hundreds of dollars at a new TPS, but if we can assume the WSM gated values are the same as the F1, I do appear to be out of tolerance.

    Of course, if the WSM values are simply the min/max of the potentiometer, we would be mostly concerned with the range of travel from idle to WOT on the car. It seems that without a proper Ferrari diagnostic computer, all we can do is compare values to see if anybody’s are way out of whack.
     
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  2. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    The 14 pin plug (pin 8, specifically) provides the earth to the bypass solenoid to open the bypass valve.

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    It's a blue/yellow wire (not to be confused with the yellow/blue wire on pin 14). If you're really keen (and have a long piece of wire) you can check continuity between ECU pin 64 and the bypass valve whilst flexing the wiring on the 14 pin plug.


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    These particular plugs seem to develop loose sockets, but generally check for corrosion and broken connections.
     
  3. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Your values do seem to be much healthier than mine. As previously mentioned the resistance values of the installed TPS are limited by throttle movement. The values given in the WSM seem to be with the TPS removed from the car. You would have to remove yours to check this, but at this point, I wouldn't recommend it. The mounting screws seem to be the type which like to migrate out of the heads (mine were slightly loose). The yellow seal on the screw heads had been disturbed by the PO.

    The mounting position of these type of sensors can be tweaked slightly depending on the size of the holes and the mounting screws. It may be possible to twist the TPS body in a certain direction as you tighten up the screws to get your idle resistance lower. Another FChatter even used a file to elongate the hole in the TPS to get more movement, but as mentioned earlier, the position of the potentiometer is based on the physical stops of the throttle mechanism. Your throttle mechanism may or may not be correctly adusted. It may be easier to tweak the throttle linkages (as per factory specs) than it is to mess around with files and such.
     
  4. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
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  5. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Thanks! So pin 3 (green/black wire) is definitely the earth.

    The WSM shows the F1 TPS internals like this:

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    It's hard to predict what would happen with your foot pushed to the floor. I don't know which way the potentiometer wiper arms move on the blue side of TPS.

    Anyway, it's probably time to move onto vacuum problems. I think we're getting too deep into TPS diagnosis.
     
  6. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    Not sure if this helps deduce the readings we are getting, but it looks like the TPS is supposed to react linearly (at least for the 001)

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    Considering that, the range from idle to WOT should be quite similar between all of us. Maybe I’m misinterpreting that document. I’d still love to know if anybody else can read absolute throttle position % with a similar scanner. @Zamboniman308 ? That number may have sent me on a wild goose chase, but it really seems suspect. If the car is legitimately reading throttle position as 75% max, is the ECU calculating wrong or is the TPS being out of spec the problem?

    If vacuum, electrical continuity, and throttle position all end up checking out ok, are we simply left assuming this specific feature of the ECU has gone bad?
     
  7. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    I think I’ll take a trip to the store tomorrow to get a length of tubing I can attach to my vacuum gauge. Might as well drive around and see what I’m getting. Seems hard to believe the vacuum reservoir wouldn’t hold enough to at least momentarily open the valve as throttle increases, but I don’t know how much demand is on the vacuum system as a whole.

    During all of the troubleshooting today,I did notice the rubber T connected to the idle air control valve has some cracks. Any possible relation?
     
  8. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    What is the definition of absolute? The ECU probably knows the range of the Bosch sensor (from 850 ohms to 2700 ohms). Your last graph showed zero degrees at the start despite your resistance being 1190 ohms at idle. The ECU must have zeroed the scale at 1190 ohms ... or tried to... despite the resistance being 40% from ideal and 22% above the allowed tolerance.
     
  9. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    That is indeed the question. Here’s what I could find:

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  10. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
  11. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Interesting. The idle air control valve is after the MAF, so air entering via your cracks is "unmetered" (from an engine management/fuel ration perspective). From a vacuum perspective, I'm not sure how significant it would be, especially at WOT. The relative amount of air coming from the cracks Vs from the airboxes is probably very little at WOT, but does it matter where any addtional air is introduced (upstream or downstream of the throttle valves)?

    Engine experts.... Where is the IAC air introduced in relation to the throttle valve? This WSM illustration seems wrong. The butterflies seem too low.

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    It's not really clear from this diagram:

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    Well, here's one reason why my TPS isn't reading 850 ohms at idle. With the mounting screws removed, the TPS can be rotated clockwise by this much before it reaches its endstops:

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  12. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    So you'll install the gauge after the reservoir?
     
  13. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    Yes, I think that would make the most sense.

    I need to determine two things for certain:
    1) Do I have adequate vacuum to the valve under all throttle conditions?
    2) Is the open signal being sent to the solenoid under any conditions?

    This would be easier to test while stationary, but I have read so many mixed anecdotes about whether the valve opens when revving in neutral.
     
  14. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
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  15. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    So now I need to figure out what’s leaking. I previously checked vacuum from at least the reservoir to the valve and it held just fine. I can’t remember how much further upstream I checked from there. Any obvious/common failure spots to check?
     
  16. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    Now that I’m thinking back to the one time I heard the valve open correctly, it was when I downshifted to slow for a car turning in front of me, which would have driven vacuum up quite a bit. As soon as they were clear, I floored it and the valve opened. Makes sense that the valve opened immediately after engine braking.
     
  17. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    Also, not sure why I was listing vacuum in PSI. Ignore my stupidity and read it as inHg.
     
  18. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Ha, sometimes I get lucky.
     
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  19. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    I re-tested vacuum at the reservoir, which should test the reservoir and everything downstream until the solenoids and it didn’t hold perfect vacuum. It leaked down a little less than 1 inHg per second, which I think is good enough that it wouldn’t cause my issues.

    It’s a tight fit getting to the rest of the upstream fittings and I think I’m going to have to put this all on hold until next month due to business trips. As a last test before I leave, I’ll probably try to recreate the conditions that caused the valve to open previously. High RPM engine braking, followed by immediate full throttle. If that works, I can say this is likely only a vacuum issue. I hope we at least learned a few things about the TPS along the way!
     
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  20. cavlino

    cavlino Formula 3

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    Learned and Enjoyed following along :) Congrats on the Car in case I didn't say it before.
     
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  21. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    I was looking at some of my vacuum system yesterday and was wondering if the black and white check valves were operating properly on your car.
     
  22. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    That’s a great question that I can hopefully get the answer to in the next few weeks.

    As for my little test of building revs, letting off the throttle to build vacuum, then flooring it…well, the valve opened beautifully when I did that! Pretty well confirms a vacuum issue. I think this is good news.
     
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  23. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    Thanks!

    Here’s a few photos after last week’s paint correction. Loving every minute of owning the car and getting it completely sorted. It is very close to being a trouble-free example.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  24. cavlino

    cavlino Formula 3

    Mar 6, 2002
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    Beauty! Looks just like the one I had 20 years ago!
     
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  25. Copperhed51

    Copperhed51 Karting

    Feb 4, 2023
    148
    #100 Copperhed51, May 17, 2023
    Last edited: May 17, 2023
    I’ve been thinking about these check valves and whether they are working or not. While I was messing around with and checking all of the vacuum lines a few weeks back, I hooked up my little handheld vacuum pump to the reservoir end of the vacuum “supply” line that goes to the reservoir. I tried to pull vacuum on the end of that line and got absolutely nothing except the light smell of engine fumes.

    I’m trying to wrap my head around this, but shouldn’t I have been able to pull vacuum against the check valves? I’m not sure if they use springs to hold a seal in place or what, but my simple brain thinks air shouldn’t be able to be pulled in the direction of the reservoir on these lines. It should only travel in the other direction. Do I have that right and did I see the problem early on, but it went right over my head?

    Also, once air injection is shut off, the only thing the reservoir supplies is the bypass valve, correct? If that’s the case, there’s no reason it shouldn’t be holding enough air volume to operate the valve when the engine is not pulling vacuum.

    Lastly, do Ferrari purists freak out if you throw a generic vacuum check valve on the vacuum lines? I’ll pony up for the real deal if it matters, but I might as well grab some cheapies in the meantime. I did see another thread where somebody added a single check valve (non-return valve) downstream from the factory ones, close to the reservoir. This may be easier unless it’s important for each of the valves to function separately and correctly.
     

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