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Why car manufacturers hate Red Bull

Discussion in 'F1' started by william, May 14, 2023.

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  1. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    #26 Mitch Alsup, May 17, 2023
    The word F1 is not needed in that sentance.
     
  2. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #27 william, May 17, 2023
    That's exactly that !
    When it created the WCC, the FIA gave equal constructor status to factories (Maserati, Ferrari, Mercedes, Gordini, BRM, Porsche) that had built complete cars, and teams that built chassis and outsourced the components (mostly the Brits).
    Presumaby the FIA had to take this course to fill the grid, since several factories had already pulled out of F1 by that time.
     
    Kimi2007 likes this.
  3. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    #28 furoni, May 17, 2023
    WEll, you should know, after all, you're the expert!
     
  4. Kimi2007

    Kimi2007 Formula 3

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    #29 Kimi2007, May 17, 2023
    Enzo was pissed because the British teams had Cosworth supplying their engines, so it was then possible to build only the chassis and enter F1, while Ferrari, Mercedes, Maserati, etc, had invested almost twice the money facilities to do everything from scratch.

    IMHO, F1 should adopt the old CART model. There should be a chassis championship, an engine championship, along with the driver championship.
     
    Adrian Thompson likes this.
  5. Kimi2007

    Kimi2007 Formula 3

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    #30 Kimi2007, May 17, 2023
    People have to get a grip over Red Bull and Mercedes dominating.

    They got the right people, for the right money, in the right work environment. Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, and Renault all did that at one point.

    Blame management for our other favorite teams sucking.
     
    Adrian Thompson, Temerian, LVP488 and 3 others like this.
  6. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #31 william, May 17, 2023

    Every dog has its day
     
  7. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #32 william, May 17, 2023
    The V8 Cosworth arrived in F1 in 1968, 10 years after the World Constructors Championship was created.
    By then, "garagists" like Cooper, Lotus and Brabham had already won 2 WCCs each using Coventry Climax engines !

    Ferrari could have recouped some of the cost of making its engines, by selling them to other teams, but he didn't want it then.
    It's only in later years that a clause in the rules forced him to make engines available.
     
    Kimi2007 and jpalmito like this.
  8. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,861
    #33 DeSoto, May 18, 2023

    They actually sold engines. Minardi in the early 90s comes to my mind, and in the 2000s they supplied engines despite not being mandatory. There were even some Coopers with Ferrari engines, although I doubt those came straight from the factory.

    In the old days, for Ferrari or any other manufacturer selling engines didn´t make much sense: nobody wants to sell stuff to their direct rivals and smaller teams used the standard, cheaper Cosworth until it became too obsolete.
     
    SimCity3 likes this.
  9. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #34 william, May 18, 2023
    Enzo Ferrari died in 1988, so wasn't concerned by this.

    The comment about "garagists" was made in the late 50s, early 60s, perhaps.

    The Cosworth V8 came about in 1968, exclusively for Lotus at the beginning.
     
  10. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    7,861
    #35 DeSoto, May 18, 2023
    Yes. My comment was about they sold engines before it became mandatory.
     
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  11. Peter Tabmow

    Peter Tabmow Formula Junior

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    #36 Peter Tabmow, May 18, 2023
    You're quite right, Mitch, I stand corrected...
     
  12. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

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    #37 SimCity3, May 20, 2023

    Contemporary version of Hesketh.

    Great for the sport.
     
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  13. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #38 william, May 20, 2023

    Lord Hesketh ran his team mostly without sponsorship (like Walter Wolf and Teddy Yip).
    He had fun with it and packed up when the money ran out.
    I liked those characters, they brought a different atmosphere to F1.
     
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  14. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #39 paulchua, May 22, 2023
    No denying it, for that I have to respect the hell out of the soda company. That and Honda.
     
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  15. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

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    #40 SimCity3, May 23, 2023

    Yes, in the days when you could run a team by cobbling together some cash.
    Sadly no more.

    RB have some of the Hesketh punk spirit, and it rattles their corporate competitors.

    Understandably :D
     
    william likes this.
  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #41 william, May 23, 2023
    I remember an interview done with David Coulthard during his first year at Red Bull.
    He commented that the atmosphere was far more relaxed than at McLaren under Ron Dennis.
    Dieter Mateschitz had apparently told him to be more himself, less "corporate", and let his hair down.
    "Here we race and enjoy ourselves", said the Austrian, "others have to please the sponsors to be able to race".
    Coulthard had say he started to grow a stubble beard and dress casually; that would have been frowned upon at McLaren.
    It's true that Dennis (like Ecclestone) was obsessed by presentation to the point of obsession.
     
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  17. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

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    #42 SimCity3, May 23, 2023

    RB are also a stark contrast to corporate Mercedes.

    Dennis and Wolff both cut from a similar cloth
     
    william likes this.
  18. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Jim Pernikoff
    #43 Gatorrari, May 23, 2023
    It's amazing when you look at the grids of some late-'50s GPs and there are more privateers (mostly driving Maserati 250Fs - how many did they build?) than works entries!
     
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  19. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #44 william, May 23, 2023
    Wikipedia says 14 in 1954,3 in 1955, 8 in 1956, 5 in 1957 and 3 in 1958. So, 33 in all !!
     
  20. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Jim Pernikoff
    #45 Gatorrari, May 23, 2023
    Yeah, I'm not sure any other F1 car model ever approached that number. 33 would have filled up an entire grid with a fair number left over! A bunch of would-be Fangios.
     
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