360 engine in 348?

I understand there is alot of dreamers making posts like this, I've worked in exotic performance/fabrication shops for years, after that I went into race cars and worked on grand am cars, lmp cars, formula 2, indy, etc I'm fairly capable and have a couple thousand sq ft backyard shop at my house. My neighbor and good friend is also a machinist with a full machine shop in his back yard shop. Honestly after doing more research the only part that I have any concern about is having a harness built to run haltech and tuning, right now looking into seeing if haltech supports the trigger pattern needed. I've compared pictures of blocks, heads, intake manifolds extensively and I actually firmly believe a 360 block/heads will bolt right into a 348 subframe, 355 itb's will bolt right up to 360 heads, and a 348 transmission will bolt right onto a 360 block. Accessories, oil pan, etc would need to be changed of course. There seems to be alot of misconception with people thinking 348/355/360 stuff is drastically different, Ferrari isn't Ford why redesign parts and spend the expense and space of new/more tooling every model year when it's just not necessary.

 

Agreed but Ferrari isn't going to make a new crank that's 5mm off from the one they were previously making financially for the size of a company Ferrari was in the 90's it just wouldn't make sense. That said since the block is the almost identical between a 348/360 I would suspect worst case scenario a 348 crank could be used and my 348 crank is perfectly fine.

 

My post here isn't to have some dumb ass hair-brained idea then never turn it into fruition I'm hoping someone has actually had some experience crossing or having these parts side by side, comparing pictures to make sure you're in the right ball park and it's feasible is the first step, there is no where local I could put my hands on these parts to measure so I will most likely just have to order and engine or heads before getting real definitive proof.

 

Not aware of anyone doing the swap or mixing and matching parts. Who knows maybe its easier than it seems. Awesome though, look forward to it! That said posts like this do show up from time to time then die. Your not the first. But you CAN be the first to do it, start a trend.

 

Transverse gearbox I think hes talking about. The shafts all run transverse, thats what the "T" is in the 348 TB/TS ...

My comment about the 355 was in jest really, for me I bought the 348 for a few reasons, one of which they are very reliable, jump in and drive, 355's are less like that.
The 348 makes a good noise with the right exhaust, yeah it could have more power, but meh, not fussed, its got enough power for what it is.

You might well just be able to fit a 360 engine if you want to, its always a lot of work with a few unforeseen issues, good luck, I'd be inclined to just buy a 360 but if you're into projects, have at it....

 

Well there is a 246 Dino around with a 360 engine in it, so anything can be done.
Good luck with your project.

 

I loved driving my 348, my car has tubi exhaust it sounded pretty good however my car had detrimental engine failure about a month ago so regardless engine has to come out and either current engine has to be rebuilt or I make the car even more enjoyable to me, had my car not had detrimental engine failure I wouldn't be considering this direction. I prefer 348 styling and with my car needing an engine just selling and buying a 360 isn't an option if that was even something I wanted to do.

 

I have noticed alot of posts like these come up then are never revisited I'll let yall know what direction I decide to go one way or the other. I may pull my engine this week to see how bad the damage is and that will definitely sway my decision I'm sure.

 

Oh I see, if I was in the same position I would also be considering something like this, I do understand your point and it does make sense in some ways...

I wonder if the 360 is CAN Bus for the instrument cluster? You might need to fit an aftermarket ECU to be able to integrate it into the 348 instruments if it is...
Then there will be a bunch of other considerations, definitely big job.

 

As I said they are not the same, the 348 has an internal spline where the spigot/pilot bearing goes on most normal cranks and which the 360 crank has.

You can lead a horse to water...... We are fitting a 355 gearbox to a 575 engine and had the same issue, the 575 engine also has a spigot/pilot bearing instead of an internal spline, we have had to make a gearbox adapter and a crank adapter to take direct drive from the 575 crank to the 355 propellor shaft.

You would have to do the same.


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I understand what you're saying now but I'm still not finding this to be a major issue, my neighbor is a machinist and Im sure we can adapt, he has the tooling to cut splines. Worst case scenario I'm quite sure a 348 crank would work in a 360 block.

 

If I go forward with this it will be a custom harness on a haltech ecu, I wouldn't do it any other way, I also want to run 355 itb's with velocity stacks so I would have to go map sensor which wouldn't be possible on a stock ecu. Making factory gauges work should be relatively easy.

 

well 348 and 360 have different stroke, there is also the issue of journal sizes and spacing for bearings. If a 348 crank dropped into a 360 block I would be very surprised if it did then there is rod length and piston pin location etc. All workable with custom rods and pistons true but again definitely not bolt together. I am very skeptical that a 348 crank would even line up and fit in the 360 block journals.

All thigs to investigate keep us posted.

 

If that was the case I would just use a 348 block but I don't think that will be the case, 348 and 360 are both 85mm bore, 348 is 75mm stroke and 360 is 79mm stroke which is what makes the displacement .2 L more. According to everything I can find ferrari used essentially the same block 348/355/F40/360 with only slight changes. Here is a 348 vs 350 head for comparison, the 360 actually has one less passage than the 348 which makes life alot easier than vise versa.
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Oops sorry those are both 348 heads here is 360 head

 

Crank bearings the same? Easy to buy 1 set for each and see.

 

That I'm not sure on, but that's a good idea, I'll probably put my car on the lift, drop motor see how bad the damage is and start taking it apart to get the measurements from the 348 side of things in the next week or so

 

What happened to your current engine that made it fail?

 

Dropped a valve... end of my spark plug for a good laugh
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Some of the instruments are, some aren't.

e.g. oil temp isn't. Speedo, tacho, water temp is.

Oil pressure input to the 360 instrument is pressure only (not low pressure warning). The 360 instrument cluster computes the low pressure warning from pressure. Additional wiring required.

Of course, the pressure transmitters on the 360 may be calibrated differently, even if they were sending analog data to the instrument gauges.

 

I did not say it was not possible, I was highlighting the obstacles you will need to overcome, as we have in the same situation.

The hole in the end of the crank on the 360 that takes the pilot bearing is larger than the one in the 348, you cannot cut splines into metal that does not exist.

Remember this spline is sending all that power direct to the clutch at the rear of the 348 box, it needs to be immensely strong. Even if that hole was welded closed and the splines then cut into it, each individual tooth will be made up of the added metal and not the high strength steel of the crank itself.

One burst of torque and bye bye splines.

Another obstacle is that the end of the 348 crank also seals the hole in which the propellor shaft is located on the 348 box, so you will need to hope that the 360 crank extends out enough and is of the exact same diameter to do the same job, or find a solution to that issue as well.

No one is trying to put you off, I hope you succeed and show us the results, but there is a reason in all these years no one has achieved what on the outside looks like a simple conversion.

 

Oh yea sorry, you had mentioned that.

 

A few parts, a little wrenching, a little eye ball here and there, whalla, not so hard. [emoji3]

I hope this gets done but there may be an overstimation of simplicity is all.

Look forward to an end result. Definitely post progress along the way for others.


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This guy was advised of all the same obstacles you would face, maybe contact him and see if he overcame them and how, as he has since gone quiet.

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/f355-with-458-engine.675803/

 

You are right and after talking to my neighbor whose a machinist he thinks using the 348 block, crank, and rods with 355 pistons and 360 heads will be the most ideal situation, it won't be a plug and play affair of course but will minimize alot of the more complicated aspects and make the machine work that's needed much less complex, the pistons are both 85mm between 348/355 they appear to be the same height, we are unsure if wristpin size I'd the same, I'm going to order a 355 piston vs to compare then go from there.