Fake tool kits. Beware. | Page 5 | FerrariChat

Fake tool kits. Beware.

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by PAUL BABER, Nov 14, 2019.

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  1. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
    580
    The long-handle, straight-T handle spark plug wrench is, as John & Christopher have noted, inside plug. Short length with curved handle for outside-plug kit.
    Regarding “tongs” – no tongs with an outside plug tool kit; tongs were needed to reach/grasp the spark plugs from between the carburetors of inside-plug motor.
    The grease gun with winged-arms is outside-plug.
    The length of the spare generator belt is outside-plug; the inside-plug belt is shorter.
    The tubular wrench is for inside-plug tool kit; not part of outside-plug kit.
    The oil-filter wrench looks correct at a glance for outside-plug, original would have a Carello symbol marking. (No spin-off oil filter wrench for inside-plug; they had a cartridge oil canister and an oil screen filter within the timing case.)

    The Beta-Auto No. 55 wrenches are correct and especially original. Note the larger, round-shape, full size wrench heads. Except for the middle wrench 16/17, which has a later style Beta head, post period Ferrari application – suggest find another. (Most people are unaware of the detail of the wrench head shape. The later-shape heads are a dime-a-dozen, and generally not correct period Ferrari application; so many kit offerings are wrong and ridiculously over-priced in this regard. A set of wrenches with later style-head is worth maybe $150 total on a good day.)

    The Riganti jack is an early color jack, circa 1969. It would have had an earlier water-transfer decal, compared to the later 60s, lighter blue jack with red foil label.

    Hard to tell from photos with straps pulled out if the bag loop pattern is inside-plug or outside-plug – they are different. An inside-plug group of tools does not arrange neatly into an outside-plug pattern bag.
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  2. toparkt

    toparkt Formula Junior
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    Oct 20, 2006
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    Andrew Goetz
    Thanks for detail .. ! I know what I’m doing today :)


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  3. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
    580
    Apologies, typo, '1959' not '1969' - my post should read: 'The Riganti jack is an early color jack, circa 1959' Here is the jack decal I referenced.

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  4. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 World Champ
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    Nov 1, 2003
    11,101

    Attached Files:

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  5. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
    580
    Edward96GTS, yes to me those are the correct style. For 250GT, the designation was I believe Beta-Auto No 55. By the time of the 275's the wrench designation changed to just Beta No 55. I understand earlier Ferrari kits circa 1957 and before had different wrenches, at least one type was marked 'ACCIAIO CROM MOLIBDENO', often with a black finish and there may have been others.
     
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  6. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    11,101
    ^ thank you.
    any thoughts on the bag? and cima jack?
     
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  7. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
    580
    I have seen CIMA jacks in tool kits at shows, on very early cars like 212's. Typically painted blue, I assume restorers have more first hand experience with this color application for a Ferrari with the CIMA jack. CIMA jacks seem to have come in various colors, and appear to have been used on Lancias, but with a shorter horizontal post, positioned higher on the jack. Here is a tool kit shown with a 212, CIMA jack. Note that around maybe 1956-1957 250GT had jack with the 'clamshell' style gear head. Regarding the bag, I have seen period brown bags, but I have no expertise to comment, looks real from a distance. I have seen olive colored leather bags with 375 America, 375MM, and 410SA. Note that this is all just lots of observation, not science.
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  8. christc

    christc Formula Junior
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    Mar 3, 2013
    470
    Germany
    Hello Chris,

    as always extremely precise and expert knowledge coming from you.

    I was aware of the difference of Beta Auto 55, Beta 55 and Beta 55 Italy but did not really noticed the difference in the spanner heads. Thanks.

    The picture of the inside plug tool bag in the manual does not show the loops. They are partly hidden. How does the inside tool bag loops differ from the outside bag loops for the different rows?

    Thanks a lot
    Christopher
     
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  9. toparkt

    toparkt Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 20, 2006
    762
    orange county
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    Andrew Goetz
    Mine should be an outside plug bag.. I’ll post tonite


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  10. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
    580
    Hi Christopher, I have an original inside-plug bag and a very nice reproduction outside-plug bag (which I mistakenly bought years ago not knowing the difference); on my list to measure/pattern the distances of the strap slots to compare, as tools fit differently. I'll get to it sometime ahead.
     
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  11. toparkt

    toparkt Formula Junior
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    Oct 20, 2006
    762
    orange county
    Full Name:
    Andrew Goetz
  12. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 World Champ
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    Nov 1, 2003
    11,101
    use parts book for the 250gte(lusso, swb, etc)
     
  13. lancia

    lancia Formula Junior

    Jan 18, 2004
    580
    There was no Factory mechanical parts book for the outside-plug 250GT Ferraris, to my knowledge; the only Factory 250GT parts book was the inside-plug book. Comprehensive Ferrari mechanical parts books only appear to evolve again with the 275 and 330 cars on-wards. GTO Engineering in the UK has reverse produced an outside-plug 250GT mechanical parts book based on the 250 SWB, developing their own schematics. A majority of the parts are probably applicable in general to most outside-plug 250s. Unfortunately the parts are referenced to their own GTO Engineering reproduction part numbers without any cross reference to the original Ferrari part numbers. You can buy the book from GTO. There were I believe some parts price books in period, but I do not know if they were issued for every model; I trust they are relatively rare, perhaps they were for dealers. I stumbled upon and have one original of such a document: 'LISTINO_PREZZI_AUTOTELAIO_250GT(2+2)'. It is a very cool book, mimeographed pages listing mechanical part numbers by system group, with a description in Italian for each part (no corresponding schematics or illustrations), and price of the part in lire.
     
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  14. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 17, 2007
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    Alberto
    Hate to be redundant, but I am afraid I must insist that we do require a Sticky Thread of ACCURATE depictions of

    what constitutes an 'exact, factory' kit versus the M. Mouse stuff that is on BaT, and elsewhere.

    It might be a terrific reference, and of great use, for all.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/a-thorough-tool-thread.676294/

    Regards, Alberto
     
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  15. toparkt

    toparkt Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 20, 2006
    762
    orange county
    Full Name:
    Andrew Goetz
    Yes. ! I recall a barn find 250 Elena recently that was on a video which had its car specific tool bag . How cool would it be to have that ! ( and a few pictures )


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  16. christc

    christc Formula Junior
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    Mar 3, 2013
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    Germany
    no parts book but the 250 GTE manual has the picture if the outside plug tool set. I guess that is what Ed was pointing at
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  17. 330BRC

    330BRC Karting

    May 4, 2007
    136
    Seattle, Washington
    Full Name:
    Brian Conlan
    Christc - I am unable to locate my original receipt for the dust cloth. However, from memory, it was about $1000 US. It is verified to be original. It has a small dust smudge on it so it is not perfect. I plan to leave it as is.
    I purchased it about 4yrs ago. Others were commenting on how people were paying ridiculous prices for these. Hard to argue. New made replicas are out there, But I wanted an original. I was happy with the deal.
     
  18. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 World Champ
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    Nov 1, 2003
    11,101
    i paid a $1000 for an original ferrari/shell cloth in the early 2000’s.
     
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  19. christc

    christc Formula Junior
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    Mar 3, 2013
    470
    Germany
    Hi Edward,

    Thanks a lot for the info!

    Christopher
     

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