Boring F1 - what do you actually expect? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Boring F1 - what do you actually expect?

Discussion in 'F1' started by spirot, Jun 2, 2023.

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  1. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Yes to steel brakes ! Why not ?Tyres are still rubber, and work well.
     
    Bas likes this.
  2. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    13,868
    Steel brakes, flat bottoms and limited aero.
     
    SimCity3 likes this.
  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,741
    Convex hull rules make it impossible to put a diffuser under the car, or wings on top, or barge boards, winglettes, ...
     
  4. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    8,281
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet
    Unfortunately you are right..
     
  5. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    8,281
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet
    Or lighters and more compact cars !
     
    Edward 96GTS, Bas and SimCity3 like this.
  6. 4re4ever

    4re4ever Formula 3
    BANNED

    Mar 26, 2006
    2,276
    Auckland/London
    Full Name:
    Simon
    A complete Reboot. Time to return F1 to the Pinnacle of motorsport.

    No Budget Cap, 2L V8TT or 3L V6TT, no min/max weight limits, standardized hybrid system made by a single manufacturer which is supplies to all Teams. All Teams field 2 Cars plus a single Jnr F1 car. Refuelling allowed, 2 different tyre manufacturers teams can use one or both. Rear wheel drive only. 1 Engine per race weekend. Unlimited testing. updated aero/ground effect rules to reduced dirty air making overtaking easier. Digital Streaming of race weekends at reduced rates to grow the fan base making the sport accessible to almost everyone. Wider use of Yellow flags and low speed zone instead of safe cars.
     
  7. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,870
    No imposition of engine architecture, just a maximum capacity, no maximum boost or fuel flow control.

    Limit the aero updates to 2 or 3 during the season.

    Improve the efficiency of track intervention, vehicle recovery and circuit repair time to reduce the race interruption.
     
  8. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    8,281
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet
    Agree
    Spare car either
    Warm up Sunday morning
    Two qualy sessions
     
  9. TurboFreak650

    TurboFreak650 Formula 3

    Jul 10, 2004
    2,429
    Atlanta, GA
    I've been watching some vintage '90s full races recently since so many are available on youtube, and I have to say the '90s were the peak of competition and of course banshee wails. In the first part of the decade you had Mansell, Prost, Senna, etc and later you had Schui vs Mika. My first regular TV access to F1 was the late '90s just as Michael was fighting Mika, not a bad introduction.

    And of course there was good ol' Murray and Hunt, later Murray and Brundle. And pit girls. And no po-litical stunts as we've seen recently. Give me a time machine....please.....:rolleyes:
     
  10. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,870
    Add to that a Penalty Box* on each F1 circuit, where offenders serve penalties for track limit infringement or provoking contact, instead of "drive through" or time added. It exists in some German series, and works quite well. Penalties have to be served immediatly (next lap), and without appeal from the teams.

    *The Penalty Box is a marked observed zone outside the racing line, about 120m long, where drivers have to reduce speed down to 50kph before resuming racing.
     
    Giallo 550 and jpalmito like this.
  11. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    So work in F1 and become too expensive. The cost cap will now and is forcing people out with skills all do to money. Teams richer and pay less because if ridiculous cap. Why work for pennies and suffer months of jet lag lol. Well done F1!! AI will kill more jobs lol. Who needs drivers now????????? Robots dont toss races like Charles has lol :)

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/red-bull-warns-of-race-to-the-bottom-with-salaries-under-f1-cost-cap/10482540/
    ---------------------

    Red Bull warns of “race to the bottom” with salaries under F1 cost cap
    Red Bull’s Christian Horner admits that Formula 1’s cost cap is obliging teams to rethink their staffing strategies, especially with regard to high-paid employees.
    Asked if there was a risk of a salary spiral, Horner also cautioned that it could go the other way, with teams replacing one well-paid veteran with several cheaper newcomers.

    “You have to make sure it's not a race to the bottom,” he said. “The problem is you have long-standing personnel that have contributed a significant amount that you don't want to see forced out of their roles because of the cap, just because you can justify 10 youngsters versus an experienced hand.

    “And that's the constant debate that you that you have, and where we've had redundancies through the cap.

    “Jayne Poole [the former Red Bull COO and HR director] was one of those as well. She was a redundancy that we made because we couldn't justify a role within the cap.”
     
  12. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,741
    Aerodynamic underbody air channel built by 3rd party to specification, everybody gets the same under floor. They can surround that floor with whatever, the the air channel is not built by teams.

    I see no reason to allow 2L TT motors, F1 manufactures could get 1,400 HP out of them, 3L TT would approach 1,700 HP
    Heck 3L NA motors were touching at 1,000 HP.

    What we need is 600 Kg MAXimum weight limit (not minimum)
     
    TurboFreak650 likes this.
  13. chopperdr

    chopperdr Formula Junior

    May 10, 2009
    318
    oceanside/vancouver
    Full Name:
    cal meeker
    Single element wings, front and rear, one type of dry and wets tires.
     
    william likes this.
  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,870
    a) I am not an expert on aero, so I don't know what the consequence would be with a specs floor.

    b) Excessive power isn't an issue, to me at least. If we can imagine a "Formule Libre", with complete freedom in engine design, engineers would find a working compromise between power and fuel weight.

    c) 600kg Maximum weight limit. That would be going back to the 1935 Grand Prix Rules which apparently forced Mercedes to strip its car from their white paint to run in bare aluminium. That was one of the best era of Grand Prix racing, and could work again.
     
  15. TurboFreak650

    TurboFreak650 Formula 3

    Jul 10, 2004
    2,429
    Atlanta, GA
    I definitely want to hear REVS, lots of 'em.

    A heavily boosted turbo motor doesn't need to rev, but 11,000 rpm takes away much of the fun. In street cars, an open wastegate setup can sound absolutely wicked, but in F1, the real cars sound exactly like '90s video games (which gave very pale imitations of the F1 cars of that time). So light turbo boost on a 17,000 rpm V-8, do it!! :eek:
     
  16. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    15,180
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro

    I think the solution is to remove barriers. mandate several key points:

    1. open wheels - define what that means min and max of open wheels. I think if you have a design for 10 wheels - bring it. you have to have 3 or more wheels - otherwise its a motorbike.
    2 Driver/spectator safety - all use mandated safety cell - harness seat etc... all that to protect the driver
    3. Mandate maximum power output. 1500 HP 2000 HP whatever - with random checks through each race. that could even be a sideshow who makes the most power ...
    4. Max g loading lateral, longitudinal etc... again driver safety. Exceed the G load the car goes into safety mode, and slows down to a stop. triggers driver survival mode...
    5. driver control - all systems have to be managed by the driver in the car - using a "steering wheel" device. physically connected to wheels suspension etc.
    6. Min and Max weight limit. also, a "box" size so that the cars fit into the box will ensure there is room for cars to pass each other. length, width, and height all have to fit in the closed clear box.
    7. Mandatory device on the bottom of each car that prevents track limits... cross over the line - device automatically slows you down 1 sec.
    8. no limits on testing or development budgets. award a prize for the team that achieves the most points spending the least - $500M reward.
    9. allow teams to run up to 4 cars per race - minimum of 2 cars per race at all times - this makes the fields bigger and gives newer drivers a chance.
    10. Each team name becomes a franchise - that the FIA / FOM sell - and if the team closed - the name reverts back to the FIA ... this way you keep the unique character of F-1.

    To me what F1 is missing is extreme... tech. they should be fighter jets on the ground... scary and sexy all at once. The Above gives wide latitude to get all that done.
     
  17. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,741
    A note:: Modern fighter jets have suffered the same bloat that F1 cars have suffered--they had to get bigger to carry all the ordinance they are expected, and carry the fuel for longer missions. Also note: modern fighters are slower than the 1960 fighters, the 1980 fighters, and the 2000 fighters. They found excess speed only burns fuel and reduces range, without bringing any survivability to the game.

    4) set maximum G load at 4Gs, if the car exceeds 4G for more than 20 milliseconds, engine HP is reduced 10% for 7 seconds.

    6) Box is set with 3" of ground clearance, 96" wheel bases, and 120" maximum lengths.

    7) exceed track limits and engine HP is reduced 10% for 7 seconds.

    11) Tire temperature monitoring prevents tire temperatures over 220ºF by reducing HP and brakes as needed to keep the tires alive.
     
  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,870
    F1 cars would need to rely even more electronics to do all that.

    I thought we wanted to get away from electronics ? They do not improve the racing.

    Also, I don't think removing the power reduction from the responsability of the driver would be good.

    As I dread to think the consequence of a car losing suddenly 10% of its power in certain circumstances.
     
    Bas likes this.
  19. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    15,180
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro
    all great ideas.
     
  20. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

    Dec 12, 2005
    15,180
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Tom Spiro

    The genie is out of the bottle. you cant go back. if that is the case we may as well watch Shifter Karts... I think we need to embrace Tech -and use it to push forward... let the designers design and the drivers tame the beast.
     
  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,870
    We could "shrink" the cars. Accept a less powerful formula, lower the speed, reduce the size and the weight of cars.
    That would make the cars smaller, lighter, slightly slower and more compatible with the existing circuits.
    The public wouldn't see the difference in speed, apart that the cars would look less clumsy thanks to the weight reduction.
    Something like a 1-liter max capacity (no imposed design, no revs limits), allow any sort of energy recovery (turbo, kers, etc ...) but with a MAXIMUM weight limit, reduce the size (max. width 180cm), the length, the tyre sizes. Curb the aero, and only allow limited updates during the season. All we keep are the safety aspects: carbon chassis, front and rear crashbox, rollbar and halo.
     
  22. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    24,660
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    With regards to shrinking the cars, let's go back to 2014 dimensions.....even further IF it's possible. The target weight has to be 600kg.
     
    Jeronimo GTO likes this.
  23. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    11,101
    since everyone has an opinion, how about a figure 8 track design?:eek:
     
    Jeronimo GTO likes this.
  24. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    27,870

    I would go back to the 70s dimensions !
     
    Jeronimo GTO likes this.
  25. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,741
    Nope, all the logic is already present in the virtual safety car stuff already in use.

    Fuel injection is electronics, tubo control is electronics, virtual safety car is electronics, and they have 100's of sensors on the cars during the race and close to thousands in practice, certainly the Hybrid stuff is electronics.

    Do you want to go back to mechanical fuel injection, waste gates, mode free engine management systems,.......
     

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