Why are we reinventing the wheel here? Norma W4 clamps work perfectly 100% of the time and are reusable until after we are all dead. They cost less, are easier to use, pose no danger to the hoses they are on when installed or removed. Great but expensive solution to a problem that does not exist in the Ferrari world. May exist somewhere but not here.
Those work great when you are working with smooth, round perfectly formed hose nipples. Not so much when they are irregularly shaped sand cast aluminum and may have some corrosion issues.
Real problem when you are using junk clamps. Even the big name quality clamps like Norma make several different lines so even cheap companies like Ferrari can get something in their price range.
Everyone has favorites but I hate those clamps with a passion and remove them any time I see them for 2 reasons. First, I have pinched one with pliers in a tight location and slipped off a clamp ear to have the clamp spin and lock in a way that I could no longer get a plier in there to grab the ears. When I remove these clamps I take my time and ensure a good purchase before I move it...lessons learned. Second, I have lacerated my arms on those clamp ears because they stick out and will find you every time you work on your car. I can't tell you how much I hate those clamps. But the best clamp is what works in your hands. There is something for everyone. On my Z06 racecar I might be all over the engine between track sessions, meaning the hose clamps might be on and off at anytime. That means standard worm screw hose clamps because of reuse. On my Maranello I don't expect to touch a hose clamp for 5 years at the next major so the poly grip isn't a problem regarding getting it on and off. The cold to hot delta in Ferrari engine bays seems quite extreme to the point I have had the bases of bosch sensors just crumble in my hands on multiple models. The polygrip clamps expand and contract with temp changes and they do not seem to leak under pressure or weap when cold. That is especially important under the plenum. If anyone uses a screw clamp under a plenum try and clock the head so you can tighten it from between the intake runners with a long screwdriver. You don't need to worry with a poly grip clamp. There is no way to reach a mikalor spring clamp. I do not know if those 100% don't leak because I won't use them. You also don't need to be extra safe and use 2 mikalor clamps like the picture posted above because the polygrip clamp is quite long and puts long broad pressure over more surface area of the pipe preventing the balloon look we sometimes see with narrow clamps. Polygrips look sleek and there is nothing for my body to snag on in tight areas. It's a Ferrari...gotta look cool too. Image Unavailable, Please Login
In over 50 years of working on cars I have never experienced a properly installed clamp allow leakage from temperature change. Neither has Detriot, Japan, Germany or Italy for that matter. Maybe you should examine your use of them when literally the entire auto industry has no issues.
Tell me about it. When I called the Ferrari dealer to order the replacement clamp, I asked if they had a "superior" model clamp so I don't have this issue again, and they told me it's a standard clamp, nothing superior about it.
If you are using the standard screw type hose clamps, and they are loosening over time, you can safety wire them to prevent that with aircraft safety wire wrapped around the thread housing and then through the slot on the tightening screw.This will keep the tightening screw from loosening. Is very compact and unobtrusive, just bury the cut end of the twisted wire ends. Used on aircraft and marine applications.
#20 shows a suitable clamp, in my view. It's not the screwed on clamp which loosens. It's the hose under it which shrinks. Seems this was never a problem, like 30 years ago. A spring loaded clamp compensates for that.
#20 works great on cookie cutter cars with peerless QA. You know, like the Japanese car pictured. Never get away with them on Ferraris. I had a hose shrinkage issue once. It was because there was a shortage of Gates hose and I had to use some Dayco. Went back to Gates and never experienced it again. Never ever once had a quality clamp come loose on a quality hose.
Everything you say about the Mikalor clamps is true. Even with the special pliers designed to open them, they can be a nightmare at times. I've gotten used to it, but you are pretty much right on target with what it's like to live with those lol. Never seen the Polygrip clamps, but I will look into that. Those do look pretty slick. Ray
It should be mentioned that I'm using rubber hoses. Hose selection is very important (as Brian eludes to). Before using the setup pictured in message #20, I tried silicone hoses and was less than impressed with the results, despite trying several different styles of hose clamps. Good old fashion / high quality rubber hoses get you a long way down the road when it comes to sealing. Ray
Just one last thing about the clamps in #20: When we did labor time studies (not that it matters what we did), we placed the clamp exactly where it was. Distance and "clocked", using the previous imprint as a guide. I found it impossible to do without the proper tool. Unless you have very strong fingers!
Hose Clamps Put the Squeeze On - Professional BoatBuilder Magazine (proboat.com) Toward the end of the article are histories of the better-known brands.
Maybe I missed something but I thought that Oetiker clamps were the ones to use as they always have tension on the hose. Not sure if one ear or double ears make any difference. Pretty sure that Oetiker clamps were originally used on my 360. But if Riifledriver says the Norma W4 clamps work then I guess they work.
They work fine in some applications. Never get away with them on a 308. As far as your 360 goes Oetikers are used for several reasons. One the parts being clamped are cookie cutter perfect. There are no judgement calls required tightening them, very important for modern assembly line workers. Faster that I can cut off, throw away, get and install new Oetikers I can remove and install Normas and we will be reusing them after we are both in the ground. And I really do not understand "always having tension on the hose"? Normas always have tension too. Neither are self adjusting. Some are but not the ones on your 360.
You said it so I believe it. Read somewhere that the Oetikers will constrict a bit when the hose hardens and shrinks thereby maintaining sealing force on the hose. So that is BS? Just use the Normas and snug them up when you notice a leak?
Yes, its BS. No, Use good hose and tighten them properly to start with. If a quality worm gear hose clamp on a good hose ever needs adjustment it was not properly installed.
If it leaks, snug it up. If not leave it be. The rubber in the hose actually has a bonding reaction with the metal over time, so extreme clamping pressure is not the key to a long term seal. That's why some hoses become stuck on and are hard to remove. This does not happen with silicone hoses, hence why they can be prone to leaks. Many use a dab of silicone sealer when installing these hoses for a more secure seal.
You will also notice Oetikers are not used on your 360 coolant hoses. On the coolant hoses they use conventional worm drive screw clamps.
