EFI upgrade of k-jetronic on GTSi | Page 3 | FerrariChat

EFI upgrade of k-jetronic on GTSi

Discussion in '308/328' started by Andyinfrance, Jul 22, 2023.

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  1. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula 3

    Feb 21, 2014
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    Ron
    One other item you will likely need to fab is the throttle body extender to add room for the injectors/fuel rail. You can see this in some of the photos above.
     
  2. Andyinfrance

    Andyinfrance Karting

    Dec 29, 2019
    86
    France
    I was looking at changing the throttle body anyway for one that has throttle position sensor and found a 70mm diameter one (66.5mm stock) so that may help in better flow too, maybe the plenum entrance would have to be opened up a bit but the fixing stud pattern is the same so should work

    https://www.atpower.com/products/single-throttle-body-70mm-bore-na-and-forced-induction-engine


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  3. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula 3

    Feb 21, 2014
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    The reason for the extended TB is to make room for the injection rail. At least that’s the route I had to use. It will be interesting to see if the TB you linked to can eliminate that interference. Please keep us posted.
     
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  4. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    No TB extender on the setups I've done....a little notch on the top of the rail, a little rework on the TB idle screw and it fits.
     
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  5. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula 3

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    Mike,
    Did you use full size injectors?
     
  6. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #56 mk e, Jul 24, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2023
    No, the little pico type. I set the lower oring like right at the port edge so as low as possible, and the otop oring like almost breaking into the bore of the rail....and it fits. I think I've done 1/2 dozen over the years and everyone's seemed happy, one guy order a 2nd.
     
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  7. Vonbarron

    Vonbarron Formula 3
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    Aug 26, 2014
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    I’m looking for the $1 dollar per 1 horsepower formula, anyone have that handy?
     
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  8. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Honda swap? o_O
     
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  9. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    To the question of why though, drivability then versatility. Carbs are kind of cool but they are never quite right. CIS usually runs well but you can't ANYTHING and keep it running right. EFI just works...same mixture everyday regardless of weather or elevation, it doesn't much care what camshafts you pick out or how much boost you add...its just nice, not original, but nice.
     
  10. Andyinfrance

    Andyinfrance Karting

    Dec 29, 2019
    86
    France
    Ok so I need a trigger wheel and sensor for the new ignition system ( whichever I chose, not sure yet ) so here’s an idea:-
    I have a redundant wheel that’s a direct drive off the camshaft, used to be used for the air injection system, also the old mounting from the air pump seems to be an ideal mounting point for the trigger wheel sensor.
    My question is has anyone done this and is a trigger wheel of maximum 100mm diameter big enough to work with all the necessary teeth for the sensor? I guess I’ll be restricted to a 36 tooth flywheel as 60 tooth may be too small to be picked up by the sensor?
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  11. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula 3

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    You can just add pins to your flywheel and use the stock sensor. About 6 pins evenly spaced will work.
     
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  12. Andyinfrance

    Andyinfrance Karting

    Dec 29, 2019
    86
    France
    Was thinking of ease of access as I don’t have to get to the flywheel, Ive found a 100mm wheel with 36-1 teeth at less than £20 so seems the easiest and cheapest way ?


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  13. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    people do it. You just need to be sure you pick a sensor small enough to work this the tooth size. Also remember that the cam is turning 1/2 speed of the crank so if you buy a 36-1 wheel and the controller accepts a cam only trigger, great, but if its expecting a crank trigger you'll need to remove another tooth and call it an 18-1 in the setup.
     
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  14. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
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    I'm going to look like a completely ignorant knob (English term ;)) with this question (because basically I am :D), but...... What is the gain with all this work? :confused:

    By that I mean, it seems like an awful lot of effort to go to, so I assume there must be some big gains to be made (power/torque/driveability/all three?)

    I was of the understanding that, as "basic a system" as it is, the Bosch K-jetronic is a pretty reliable system, that even after 30~40 years service, doesn't require a lot of maintenance to keep it running (if any maintenance at all)

    By adding a more modern injection system, you're adding aftermarket control systems and sensors that can introduce reliability issue.

    The 308/328 series is an old car now - An F355 would hand it's arse to it, let alone something like a ferrari 296 (I was out and about last night in my 328 GTS, driving on a twisty main road at @ 80~90 mph, and I was absolutely urinated on by a Porsche 911 GT3 who passed me like I was parked at the side of the road!) , so what makes all this work and effort worth doing? :confused:
     
  15. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    on a QV it gains you about 20hp. The CIS is quite restrictive is 2 ways. 1 is air flow and that is where the 20hp comes from, 2 is cam timing so once the CIS is gone you can run any cams or turbo or blower you please and that a a good number of 300=800hp 308s out there..classic looks with modern hp.

    800hp in a 308 is hard to handle BTW...this is 1/2 throttle and not quite 2/3 redline :eek:
     
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  16. Andyinfrance

    Andyinfrance Karting

    Dec 29, 2019
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    Does anyone have any recommendations for changing the coils if I’m installing electronic ignition? Currently 2 x Magneti Marelli 801A ecu’s driving twin coils that supply 4 plugs each, I’m planning to keep the twin distributors and drive new coils from a new ecu system, is the resistance of the coils important ? Was looking at Flamethrower coils or even the flamethrower e-coil looks similar to original but more powerful spark and up to 60,000 volts, but what resistance do I need ?


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  17. Sergio Tavares

    Sergio Tavares Formula 3

    Nov 15, 2018
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    We found the best cleaner was CRC Mass Air Flow sensor spray cleaner.
    Very strong and our new 328 runs much better
     
  18. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    I would say look at the charge time to be sure you are getting a full charge at redline.

    High voltage means its more prone to arcing were you didn't mean....so better wires, lose the extenders (I had horrible luck with them burning through) and the cap and rotor will not last as long.

    Coil resistance is more a points thing....it does change the current flow so make sure you have adequate size wiring or you won't get the volts it claims to deliver.
     
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  19. Andyinfrance

    Andyinfrance Karting

    Dec 29, 2019
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    France
    I presume that’s why Ferrari used 2 coils one per bank just to allow the time for the coil to charge, rather that feeding the whole 8 cylinder off one coil, I presume modern coils are more efficient and charge quicker, so how does the resistance of the coil matter? There are no workings to worry about in the distributor and the charge time is supplied by the Digiplex boxes, and the car isn’t subject to US restrictions on coils. I’m just trying to get my head around it, apologies if it’s a stupid question


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  20. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    Yes, 2 coils helps charging time but it's still something you should confirm.

    Coil resistance sets how much current will be flowing though the coil after its fully charged, so it set how much heat is generated if you dwell time is longer than needed. You will need to set the dwell time in the ECU.

    Coil charge (dwell) time it a combination of resistance and inductance with the inductance being the primary factor

    I'm not aware of any restrictions on coils here in the US.....I guess it could fall under the general don't mess with anything rules in CA, not sure.
     
  21. Andyinfrance

    Andyinfrance Karting

    Dec 29, 2019
    86
    France
    Thanks for explaining, makes sense now
    Yes maybe that’s why I’ve seen coils that say conforms to …… law in the us


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  22. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    Dec 22, 2007
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    I recommend to install a crank sensor on the harmonic damper and a cam sensor directly on one of the intake cams. That way you have easy access and full flexibility for adjustment and tuning of you efi setup. I've used mostly modified standard equipment for both crank and cam sensor setup.

    Best, Peter

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