Hi all, I'v owned several Ferrari V8s but never a V12. Am looking at one of 456/612/599. Would appreciate any advice or thoughts. Thanks
What do you want the car for? How Long do you plan on keeping it? Without knowing anything about you or the answers to these questions; I'd suggest the 612 over the 456 and the 599 over the 612. Best wishes and keep us posted.
Hi, it's for occasional driving trips in the UK and Europe. Would prefer something comfortable over a 2-3 hour driving trip and with room for some luggage. Anything that can be a future classic would be a bonus Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well, I can report that I drove a 456M in one day from San Francisco to Portland (about 1040 km) and didn't feel tired or achy. The seats were firm and supportive. The "+2" seats are really for children under the age of 10 as leg room is virtually nonexistent. The trunk is actually quite large and useful. I would assume that a 612 would be as or more comfortable and the back seats are considerably roomier because it is a bigger car. The 599 is more hardcore, I believe. Each generation generally gets more high tech and refined. I think that the 456M is more likely to be a "future classic" (whatever that may be) but that's just one man's opinion.
Difficult question, the cars are not really comparable.... The 599 is a two seater, both other cars are 2+2's, that makes a comparison very difficult. The 599 has for sure the best performance of them, the 612 is a quiet big car and has most probably the biggest and spaciest interior..... The 456 is stylish and a landmark for front engined V12 Ferraris.... If you ask in the different sectors of the chat (according to the models), you'll get for sure different answers. It has nothing to do with performance, more with the design and general apperance, that I would personally vote for a 456. While I see this model as a continuation of the classical V12 tourers, the other two have their advantages too. I think, the decision depends strongly on your personal taste as well as on your expectations. For me personally, 612's and 599's wouldn't be an alternative to a very nice 456. Having followed the price development of the cars, for me it seem's, that 599's /612's prices are still dropping, while 456 prices seem's to raise steadily. Maybe, you should have a look at Vitor's rebuild of his damaged 456, exceptional thread of a much loved 456.... Please keep us posted... Saluti, Jürgen
Will look up Vitor's thread and also study the 575 F1. Thanks everyone Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
599 in the UK is super cheap. That's the car you need sir and the seats fit like a glove unless you're a bigger guy.
Your lucky to even consider the three as they are worlds apart in price here. Drive them all before you decide. You will more than likely go with the 599 in that context. If depreciation is a consideration the 456M is the choice. If performance is the key the 599 will win. Your choice
They are all beautiful cars in their own right. Will do some more research and testing. Keep you all posted! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The 612 is a more modern version of the 456 with the engine of the 575M under the hood. All the conveniences are up to date and it can be considered a modern car by today's standards. One thing you will not find in the 612 is more room than in the 456. The 599 is a completely different car and cannot be compared the other 2, period. It has only 2 seats, brutal power and costs a lot more. In the end it all depends on what you are looking for: any of the 3 cars will allow you to drive long distance in great comfort, but there is where the similarities stop.
The 612 and 599 offer cruise control and heated seats. I bought a 456M GTA last September, had sagging headliner (common) bad motor mounts (common). AC fan that blew all the time (common) leather shrunk on rear deck lid and around passenger airbag (common). So if all this has been done then a 456M is your best bang for the buck but if you can spare a few more dollars I'd pick a late model car like the 612 and 599. OH the 456s had bad valve guides in many cars, I believe my next major service I'll be replacing mine as it does smoke now on the right bank after its been sitting for sometime then it clears up. This is common and I believe to be an expensive fix. I want to make it clear I love the car, I also like working on them, its a challenge and rewarding. Great Cruiser.
Not a personal slight, but I am not quite sure even after reading your desires what question you pose. If you can afford the 599, why bother with even considering a 612 let alone a 456? don't get it. I'd jump to the 599 even though I loved my 456 over the looks of the 612, albeit the 612 had more to offer. I'd be so into getting a 599 right and just dance away from the others. Besides wouldn't this be a better question in the 612/599 section? There is a reason they have their own area. rik
Rik, that was exactly my intension, when I placed my first comment. Despite the fact that we compare 2+2 with 2 seaters, if only the figures count's there is only one decision, that means a 599. The design, character and appearance of the cars is so different. For the younger generation again the 599 wins most probably..... As I already past the fourth decade of my live, things are changing. For me it doesn't matter if the car can reach 300 km/h or 330 km/h, even while living in germany, this is not the point anymore.... But to open the garage, look at the car and then to drive it - pure emotions...... There is no "better car" in this content, just the right car for you.... 456's are for me the last classical 2+2 V12th, 612's are for sure a good buy (even the dimensions are, imho, to big for a sportscar). 599's are nice car's but nothing for people which maybe dreamed in their childhood days of a Daytona. I refused already two exchange offers for my low milage 550. Saluti, Jürgen
I think your response is what I would have responded to my query, but still not sure how to answer. I totally love the 456 GT, not the newer M series exterior but love the M's interior. Totally bypassed on the 612. 599, love the tech and the flying buttresses. The 456's are needing a lot more to keep them pristine. No comment on the 612 as not interested to know their particulars. 599's seem, to me, to be a mix of continued depreciation and some going even up. Depends I'm guessing on condition as is the 456's. Guessing you'll need to drive them and figure it out. good luck and hope to know the selection. r
I do not particularly enjoy to dig up old threads, but sometimes it's necessary In that particular case it's because I have the same existential question as the OP, except that it is 8 years later and that makes this even maybe more relevant as some in the lists have achieved some sort of different status. I think in his case, he went 360, 355, 16M and 308, not sure in which order, anyways I believe none of the 3 that were being considered. In my case, I mostly had 2+2 cars in the past, one of which was the Gransport, I still have a CL63 AMG that I am selling and daily drive a QP Sport GT S, one of the 2 sedans I ever had (good old times I had my Alfa but no kids). I tend to think that I want to be able to use my "nice car" for every occasion, including bringing the kids to school or going out to the restaurant with the family. I won't be as crazy as using it for beach rides but it happened when there was no other choice. That's a bit of background info so that things can be put in perspective. And yes, I would use that prancing horse to drive daily, and put mileage on it shamelessly because I am convinced it's the right thing to do. Last, but not least I never owned a 2 seater. This said, let's get into the details. - 456M GTA: I have seen a decent one (TDF Blue with Bordeaux interior), that could be brought back to near concourse condition with a little bit of love. I can easily find low mileage ones locally, that is 20000 to 40000 km. If I was getting that, I would do 2 cosmetic modifications, that are not out of the ordinary to modernize the looks while not compromising the intended design: NF2 19" wheels, and painting the rear lights so that they look like the initial 456 prototype. Mechanically, I would probably remove the secondary cats and put a steering ECU, nothing else. Now to the pros and cons of this choice. Pros: it's now a modern classic, the design is an all time favorite, the pop up headlights have their charm too, it has 4 seats and it probably won't loose any value overtime. Cons: you get all the older Ferrari issues of this generation, that is thermocouplers, shock actuators, it still has cambelts, and generally speaking it won't be cheaper to maintain than the other 2 options, probably more expensive in fact. Then another big negative about this one is the older automatic gearbox, I am quite sure it's very well suited to the engine but it won't be a sporty drive, that's for sure. Performance wise, it's not really fast, particularly with the auto, but let's say it's quick enough for my road standards, it just qualifies in fact. -612 Scaglietti: I have viewed a few first generation ones, in terms of mileage we are more in the 30000 to 50000 km range. I like darker colors and would ideally settle for a Silverstone Grey with Bordeaux interior, better if I find the daytona seats. I would get one with the HGT-S pack. Contrary to the masses, I always loved the 612 design, in fact I think it's spectacular, I love every bit about it, back, side, front. It's much more modern than the 456M, it's a bit roomier and get good performance credentials, it's still not very fast but pretty quick already. What it looses in "classic grade-ness" it makes up for it with its modernity and performance. Pros: 4 seats, still relatively modern in 2023, quick enough and lively enough with the HGT-S pack, stunning (in my opinion), reliability. Cons: a bit harder to find as I want, still much slower than the more modern alternatives like FF, unloved so it can still depreciate although they seem to have bottomed for a few years, the F1 box is not the fastest one ever made but the HGT-S pack solves a bit of that and when you use them properly they are good enough for me. Last, it's a bit more expensive than a 456M but what you spend in extra money, you will probably save on maintenance costs with no real depreciation of the car overtime, I don't think the value will go up but that's not very relevant because I forgot to mention but whichever I buy from these 3, I will probably drive it, keep it and let my son auction it in 40 years, so I am looking for a keeper - 599 GTB Fiorano: This is a bit of an outsider somehow, because I never seriously considered a 2 seater before. I mean I got the itch but it's not as practical as I would like it to be. In terms of mileage, we are looking at the same range as the 612: 30000 to 50000 km. Same ideal spec as the 612: Siverstone grey with Bordeaux interior with challenge wheels, but I would still compromise and get black with black or tan interior although it's not my ideal spec. I wouldn't go for an HGTE but I would probably later retrofit the springs and anti roll bar, and maybe have the TCU retuned if I end up getting a 2009+. It's a step forward in modernity, compared to the 2 others, performance is very actual and it's quite satisfying to know you have an F140 engine. Not that the F116/F133 was bad, but I guess you get the point... Cons: it has 2 seats only and the rear of the 599 always bothered me, but that could easily be "solved" with a GTO style rear bumper and boot lid, the rest of it is stunning. Pros: modernity, performance, stunning cabin. Overtime, it probably will retain its value or maybe appreciate following the "regular" trend of the 2 seater V12, but again not really relevant in my case. It's pretty specific at the end, because we are looking exclusively at V12, in what qualifies as the "affordable for me" range. There is not a huge price difference in between them all and what you gain here you will probably lose there. Should this post have been a new thread in the 599/612 sub forum? Probably not, because the consensus will be that it should be the 599 because it over performs the 612 in every department except the extra seats. Also the 456M having become a modern classic in the meantime means that it is no more purchased for affordability but more likely for what it is: a stunning classic design 2+2 V12. Back to the topic, I would tend to reason this way, but as you see it's not very clear cut so all inputs are more than welcome: if I can only find a 456M GTA (likely in my market), I may be better off going for a 612 HGT-S, because the gearbox is still its weakness. However, I still value the looks of the 456M but probably not the issues I will get now and then. Now in between a 612 and a 599, I definitely value the practicality of the 612 but wouldn't mind the performance of the 599 and its cabin. Difficult...
Good luck with your search, it is half the fun. It appears we have similar taste in cars as I have owned a C63, E63, QP5 and a Granturismo in the past. As I like to take my GT cars on family vacations having two back seats is a must so that has always ruled our the 599 and its successors for me. I own a 612 OTO (#164158) which I bought in Nov of 21 with 28,000 kms and yesterday we ticked past the 75,000 km mark and I would fully expect to pass 50k of use in my first 2 years of ownership. I mention the OTO as it is significantly different than the earlier models, very rare (fewer OTO’s than 599 GTO’s) and a great multi-tasker. I have had to do the clutch and the timing belts during my ownership and those can be expensive maintenance when done at the dealer as mine were but when amortized across the kms driven its not too bad. I have many threads including running costs, etc in 612 section documenting my ownership. The OTO has: 1) same clutch as the 599 (twin disc) 2) upgraded engine - F133H 3) manettino 4) upgraded but still way out of date nav system (saved by the ipod cable) 5) upgraded transmission electronics for faster shift times 6) photochromic roof (the view for the passengers is stunning) 7) 20 inch challenge wheels 8) numerous little updates like the trunk latch, etc. There are 2 OTO’s for sale on Autotrader in the UK for what look like fair prices and with mileage low enough that a clutch change at 40-50k miles is pretty far into the future unless you drive like I do. I run my car year round with winter tires from Nov-Mar and summer tires for remainder. Message me if you want to talk in detail. Bill
Hi Bill, thank you for your message! Yes it seems we have some car affinities indeed, I didn't mention the CLS63, so I also went through two 6.2 When I got the CL63 in 2016, which I keep in France by the way, the alternative was a 612 HGT-S but I ended up finding the CL. Back then, the OTO was out of range for me financially speaking. Now that the gap is minimal, at least here, I appreciate it basically has all the improvements of the HGT-S / HGT-C pus the roof and the updated gearbox, so I definitely considered it but discarded the idea for practical market reason. There are almost inexistant in our market here, the only one that showed recently stayed for sale for 1 day and had 70000 km, which is a bit too much for me considering I will easily add 10k per year, so I'd rather get something around 30k is possible, I did miss a nice one last year with the perfect spec and low mileage. On the contrary, there was plenty of earlier 612 most of them with the HGT-S package locally. These days it's a bit of a mixed bag: it's half half base and half HGT-S and we have less and less cars locally. Lots of buyers from UK and Australia snatched our cars to export because we have an extremely attractive pricing on second hand cars despite prohibitive new car prices. I don't evaluate how much of a "hassle" it would be for me to have a 2 seater, I guess I would need to keep something more practical on top, so then it looses some of its appeal if I can't use it daily. Cheers. Emmanuel
