ITBs on a 512 BBi

LOl
or just put a512 M engine in and keep the stock one for concors resale. You also need a Tr transmission, say 100-150k once done.

Whats interesting is the weight saved on the Ti conrods is somewhat more easily replicated by a lightened flywheel. 360 Ti conrods though are near bolt in, and a 512 M crank is much lighter and can be machined to fit but I dont think the cis will be able to take advantage of all that and you can only reprofile cams so far before cis won't work..

For practical reality if youre rebuilding the engine why not go for the pistons cams, light flywheel and cis worked out, 400 hp lots of tq and power to 7k and as snappy response as a cis is capable of plus great street ability, that makes some logical sense and will drive the car about as fast as you want to go. Maybe even a shorter final drive ratio. May ways to skin the cat. If youre doing a rebuild why wouldnt you do this. I went in a car Newman had done like this and with 360 rods but stock flywheel, it was stout really stout.

A 512 BB motor though that can be taken far cause you dont have the cam or same iutake restrictions inherent in the cis, but then were always wondering when the transmission will go bang and it will be an edgy motor.

 

I would replace this CIS to an EFI, all other I agree

 

For the very brave.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/ferrari-4-9-liter-flat-12/

 

I think that Brian explained it pretty well. I wouldn't consider EFI and ITB's as anything to do on a 512bbi. Choose another car.

I think that if you do an engine rebuild, there are upgrades you can make that improve matters while keeping things in the spirit of the car. Changing out the CIS isn't one of them. What's next? Converting it to an electric car with batteries?

 

Good day Robert,

Having read the various posts, I did not get the sense that those that were trying to point you in another direction were from a purists perspective, etc. I interpreted their posts in that you would be spending a lot of time and effort for limited gains and so the recommendation was to use another platform where your efforts would not be in vain. If performance is what you are after, then others recommended other options where you would indeed see marked performance improvements... and these would take less effort/time and have less risk. If aesthetics is what you are after... it seems that you would be investing a lot of time and effort for the "look" of ITB that could very well be hidden/unnoticed because of being covered by air cleaners/boxes... and/or unappreciated or unknown by those that are unfamiliar with them.

That said, it is your car and so do as you please and most would agree with this statement.

Cheers,

Sam

 

With stock cams it will not be any quicker. And everyone who sees it will silently (or perhaps not so silently) say ‘poor car’. But, by all means, it’s your car, do as you wish.

 

I think teslas dive great, its a whole new paradigm.
You also mentioned there is an emotional connection tot he year 1983. I also have a 1983 BBi and Ive owned it long enough that its a car Im not changing, so perhaps for different reasons i get not going to saya BB.


If you're not selling it, no reason to not have the car as you'd like it, and as you say these types of mods are somewhat easily reversable. Ifa purist wanted to buy your car 20-40 years from now and you still had all the cis bits, it would all go together in a resto.

I get for you its all also somewhat of an asthetc and aural thing.
If it were my car, and I were doing the changes for sure Id do pistons and cams. Even aurally the noise youd get from proper breathing would be worth it, ad the car would be really worken up. BBs have not such great pistons and poor rings, BBi cams simply are not good. At the very least id put BB cams in if not the pistons.

You dot need to do more than that.

i think years back newman did ITBs on one of these cars, ask him.

As for wheels and tires, if you want to retain the stock look, id get BB wheels of some aftermarket Bb/daytona wheels(totally stock looking in 15 inches) where you have a wider rear. There are some greta tire options from historic racing in 15 inched that will give you that donut tire look, but handle properly and work witht he 450hp you'll then have. If you ever then want to return the car to stock look, simply remove the ITbs, put appropriate cams on(they could still be optimised for pitons if you have gone that far) put the stock wheels back and viola, you're back to concors stock.

in short, if you're doing ITB with intake trumpets (yes they would look and sound great) at the very least you should do cams. Id personally go the extra mile and do pistons because there is a vast geian there and youre already pretty far in. Stock rods are plenty strong, to make the mtor more snappy just go to a lightweight flywheel, aftermarket clutches are great too.

15 inch wheels with appropriate tires. You could even go with Koning BBLM tyle intakes which breathe off the roof, its a great period look and you'd let those ITbs breathe well with the appropriate trumpets, and when you open the rear clam it will look magic. It would all be the correct period look, and early 70s can am ferrari for the road which si whata BB is. No one s goign to do those changes to a BB but no reason not to on a BBI and its all easily reversable.

As to resale, you'd be surprised, look what singer porches go for. The key is to do it all tastefully with the period look, eye candy and performance not bling..

 

?????.. For those that have never done it going to close to !!:! with lighter, stronger reciprocating parts and cleaned up heads produces very unexpected change.

Someone else already said it. So few have experienced a correct running Boxer they would be rather surprised just experiencing that..
Changing cams in BBi is a fools errand.

As for the comments of others you are 100% correct.

 

BB and BBi have identical pistons and rings. All were not very good and Ferrari always was very timid on compression ratio until good detonation control was available. The motors respond well to 10-11: 1 compression.

 

Everyone to their own liking. I can fully understand that some people like to modify and play around with their cars even if it is 512bbi. EFI conversions can be done in a fully reversible way making it possible to revert back to the CIS if preferred. I'm currently preparing my 308 QV for a reversible EFI conversion and I'm having great fun. It's expensive and not worth the investment by looking solely at the power gain but there are many other opportunities like being able to run on green(er) fuel etc.
Best, Peter

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you could always try this;

https://www.saxonparts.com/product/lucas-mechanical-fuel-injection-for-ferrari/

 

Yeah i get where youre coming from. the key is not to overdo it, or lose the plot.
Imo the BBI is just crying out to have the "upgrades" done. Its the same concept as taking a late 70s Us alfa spider doing an efi and cams. The cis system was always a subpar idea, put there because emissions were commign and ferrari and oters had no choice. Given the understanding at the time flat cams were required, no one thought that flat cams was any sort of upgrade.

We can see where ferrari went with the testarossa through 3 iterations between wheels/tires and efi. had they continued witht he boxer, then the same would have happened. the TR is fundamentally the same platform. just a bigger heavier longer softer boxer with ac that works. Turns out if you make bigger heavier softer cars that are easier to drive(not necessarily more fun) you get mroe sales. Well more sales and USA compliance for bumpers crash etc.

If one removes the bad parts imposed on the boxer due to period politics (tires and CIS) and does something true to form, well imo you have something closer to the ideal as say eagle does with etypes or others do with 70s/80s 911s. Done right they are worth more not less.

Were not talking about changing the shape (which is art perfection) or any of the essence of the machine. Rather bringing back some elements (Itbs) that were lost when the webers were dropped. Its what the british call sympathetically updating. Youre talking about removing some bad bits forced on the car in period due to politics and poor tech. Not really different to putting modern ignition on, or when a daytona gets rebuilt with lemans cams and high comp pistons and the USa exhaust replaced with a euro one.

On the exhaust BTW the header are fine and imo the Bell exhaust sounds best.

Allw we're talking about is having the car run as it should, not trying to make a period piece be a modern, as is done with older vettes.
Actually very much along the lines with how Bruce canepa updates a 959 porche, and no one is complaining about that.

Im a big motec fan.

 

I'm using a Link X "Storm" ECU with sequential coil on plug ignition, wide band 02 sensor, MAP sensor, TPS potmeter, fuel sensor and various temperature sensors.

Best, Peter

 

Hi Peter,
What coil on plugs are you using?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Modified Bosch #0 986 221 023.

Best, Peter

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