26 years ago today. One day after I finally realized my childhood dream and drove my 308 home from FAF in Atlanta. Seventeen year wait and all I could do was sit in it in my driveway. Anyway, a friend and I replaced it with Rutlands "upgraded" unit. I have no earthly idea what upgraded from them meant in 1997 but that pump has outlasted the original by thirteen years and has about 25,000 more miles on it as well. Still going strong. Would I be foolish for replacing it at my next service at this point or just leave it alone? I'm thinking it needs to come off but does anyone make one as good now as this one has been?
Tommy - Our water pumps seem to have earned quite the reputation of being hit or miss. There are folks like you who have received a long life with theirs, but then there are others like me who has gone through three of them. In my case, the last time that one of mine failed (always by leaking at the seals), I decided that enough was enough, and I bought the aftermarket version as sold by Nick's Forza. It is, indeed, one of the world's most expensive water pumps, but upon a visual inspection when mine arrived, the difference in build quality is very apparent. And, needless to say, the aftermarket pump has performed without the slightest problem in the years since, causing me to believe that it is a once-and-done upgrade. For me, the piece of mind which I now have goes a long way towards justifying the high cost of the part. In your case, I do fully appreciate the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" perspective. But, the next time that your car needs a cam belt service, note that you've already done 90% of the labor required to remove the pump. So, if you leave it be, like Clint Eastwood said, "Do you feel lucky"?
Well, since you are quoting Clint, you might as well do it correctly. It's ... Do you feel lucky. Do you, punk? And to Tom, 26 years is a long time. The upgrade in the pump FAF sold is a bigger bearing than the original and meant to last longer as it did. If you are in there doing something, change it. I just check Nick's pump, it's $800. While that is a lot for a 308 pump, it's cheaper than a 348 pump, 355 pump, 360 pump, by a mile.
Or instead of replacing it for a new one, you can always send to “Flying Dutchman” to be rebuilt and upgrade to the three bearings style and with better seals.
IMHO, I believe water pump life and durability is a function of the metallurgy used in the construction. Way back in the day when emissions were first starting to become a thing, automakers raised engine operating temperatures as a first step to cope with fighting tailpipe emissions. I remember having a new Olds 4-4-2 with about 7k miles on the clock and driving it into the dealer's garage for an oil change; when I turned off the key off, there was suddenly a loud clunk and coolant spilled out over the floor. Fortunately for me, this water pump failure occurred at the perfect time and place and the fan didn't also take out the radiator leaving me stranded on the side of the road. The dealer commented that GM was having a rash of water pump failures and was having to redesign the pump specs due to the higher operating temperatures.
Flying Dutchman at least for me since I couldn’t afford Nick’s WP http://www.waterpumps.bizhosting.com/
My personal bias is to go with Nick's. In all the yrs I've been working with him and the crazy engines we build I can't think of a single failure. Full disclosure, I've got zero financial gain on whether anyone buys a pump. My bias is that the dang things just work great and I haven't seen a failure even with the craziest of projects I've R&D'd over the last 15+yrs. I believe there's still pumps running since the early 00's when Nick first started having them made.
Unless you have a spare WP sitting around, the idea of having the car down while waiting for your WP to get rebuilt, sounds like a terrible idea. Losing a 308 for 2-3 wks isn't worth saving the price delta between the two options.
I had my water pump rebuilt by Flying Dutchman in 2017. So far, so good. the 328 is driven a little over 1000 miles per year.
Having owned the vehicle for over 35 years I found that I could live without it for 2 - 3 weeks. While I enjoy the vehicle and plan on keeping it indefinitely, the honeymoon is over.
If your car uses a single water pump belt (84-85), Nick's pump requires a different size/longer belt.
If you are going for long tern reliability, I would take this opportunity to convert to a single belt water pump, single belt alternator, single belt AC. That means new vibration damper, new alternator pulley.
I already did the 2 belt upgrade about 20 years ago. Made a world of difference. I haven't broken another belt since.
I think many car parts are like appliances - the new ones last half as long as the old ones... original waterpump was in my car for 12 years before it failed (except it turned out it didn't fail, the thermostat had). Replacement lasted 7 years (with very little use as I was working overseas most of that time). I'd be more inclined to check, and recondition if necessary, the old existing one. And replace the thermostat at the same time
Seems like folks have had good success with the Flying Dutchman's rebuilds. Unfortunately that was not my case. See post #4 describing my experience: 328 water pump | FerrariChat. I ended up rebuilding my own using a newer single piece ceramic seal and it has been in operation for nearly a decade without difficulty. I rebuild these as a hobby and there are probably 25-30 of my rebuilt versions on 3x8's/mondials currently. The only failure that I'm aware of was in a pump that suffered a cracked seal after the individual performed a 'dry run' with the pump installed and no coolant. With the newer version single piece ceramic seals it is important for it to be exposed to coolant when the water pump shaft is in motion for any significant period of time.
While your in there ??? We all have heard that, if it was my car, being that its not a major expense, I would replace it. I like the piece of mind, so theres that. G
I know I should now. 26 years was a good run. I just wanted to go in the best direction with the new one. I want pure quality. The best. Cost isn't a problem.
https://www.superformance.co.uk/308/cooling.html To add to the choices, I purchased this pump from Superformance, it is made by Capristo. It has an aluminum impeller, and I have more than 10 years out of mine so far. It is on manufacture backorder, but might be worth calling them to see when they might be available. Expensive, but the casting quality looked very good, and the light weight impeller sounds useful. No idea what bearing is in there, but it is standing the test of time. I also have a spare in my inventory, a rebuild by SeattleM5, it looks to be a beautifully cleaned up OEM casting with an uprated bearing/seal, so when my Capristo goes that will be what goes in next. I would bet his quality control is as good or better than any manufacturer. I did not expect my Capristo to last so long, my original OEM pump was rebuilt at the time of purchase by a local mechanic and only lasted 3 years, and a low cost aftermarket one failed in 2 years.
