296 Values and Used Market

But the post up there saying one ran at Manheim Dallas for 544. That’s a 60 differential almost for the closest retail unit.

 

Ferrari Palm Beach has red 296 coupe for 499K, white 296 coupe 575K

 

Insane where the prices are on these things.

 

Really depends where the economy goes too. People have been saying we are on the verge of a big crash for almost 2 years now coming off that Covid boom of all that printed money the governments pumped out

 

He paid over $100k for a 296 production car?
Why??


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Because he can...
Likes to have at least one of everything he likes (cars, ranches, planes..)

 

Asking 150k over. Great spec. https://www.cauleyferrari.com/used-vehicle-2023-ferrari-296-gtb-c-480/

 

Pretty bare bones spec tbh.

 

I put that many miles on in this weekend alone. How the heck do these people not drive these cars?

 

I guess bare bones is a very subjective opinion. 65k in options is not my definition of “bare bones”. When I think bare bones I usually think of 5-6 option on the option plate, not both sides filled. Looks decently optioned to me. Not bare bones, not a crazy build. That’s the good thinks about “options”, everyone can select what they like.
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Good question! The person had it for 6 months and barely put more than delivery miles on it. Maybe they have a large collection or had health issues, who knows? (The day my F8 arrived I was in a horrible accident and couldn’t even sit in the car for 3 months. It got driven in the garage by a neighbor and sat on the tender for 3 months).

 

Fair point. There seem to be many people that develop health issues when their new Ferrari is delivered. Avoiding buying one may help keep everyone in better health. ;-)

(I'm kidding, I understand that this does sometimes happen)

 

LOL. Very good point and did not think of that correlation. My wife had to leave the ICU to meet the driver and accept delivery of the car. I was barely conscious and I made her show me photos when she came back to the hospital. I think next new car delivery I will stay in a bubble.

 

I’m just saying, standard wheels, no cost red. No exterior carbon. The options are crazy expensive now. You do a sporty interior and it’s almost impossible to get under $50k in options…..

 

Again, very subjective. We all know resale red is the most popular color. Personally exterior carbon is waste and I stopped optioning it when it became common place (when a Honda Civic offers a carbon pack it lost its allure).

What may be “bare bones” to you may be highly optioned for others. I’d consider this spec to be an average spec. The reality is this spec will probably net the seller more than someone who tries to sell their car with 150k in options. (Not trying to be argumentative, just pointing out a differing view)

 

I wasn’t being argumentative. Never said anything about value. I was just disagreeing with your description of great spec. I just see it as an average spec on a great car. But to each their own certainly.

 

You guys watch Porsche prices? 911 ST, $250k over, GT3RS, $150k over, GT4rs 65k over....... Porsche 718 Spyder RS, $100k over...and so on.

...choose, a $550k Ferrari 296 GTB or a $550k Porsche GT3RS.

 

Yes... lots of money at the top

What's crazy to me is just that it's still a small group of people buying all this stuff... a lot more "collections" out there now... the guys that have 1 super car are not the ones paying over sticker for something in particular they want

At some point I can see a lot of super cars getting dumped all at once if the economy crashes

 

No crash coming from all leading indicators.
What is smart to watch is the % of $$$$ cars being financed. The big money cars are cash.

 

you'd be shocked. over half the people buying those cars are financing over 75% of the price. they can't afford them.

 

I am certain you are right...but at what price points and what forms of leverage?

I recently sold a 2022 Touring thru Road Scholars. In case you don't know about RS they are without a doubt one of this (if not the) most respected restoration facilities and resellers of vintage Porsches. They sold our Touring because we have vintage Porsches and I trust them completely. Long story short, they told me that indeed most of their $$$$ cars are 'financed'. However, not all financing is the same. The truly rich (let alone wealthy) don't borrow money beyond their available cash. For example, if you want top buy a million dollar car you should have 1 million in assets. This is a very safe way to borrow and never over leverage. This isn't a real estate investing conversation...this is about buying 'stuff'. I get the benefits of long term fixed rate mortgage debt.

Borrowing from your local lender because you cant pay cash is not the same as borrowing against other assets. For example, someone has a load of equity in a company they started and took public. They can borrow against that equity (super low rates). GS, JP do this sort of lending. Total win-win. They don't have to sell their stock, avoid the tax ramifications of selling (no taxes on loans), get a super low rate loan...and...oh yeah, they get the car that hopefully at leasts holds its value if not appreciates. They won't ever fire sale their cars...not the same as someone who is stretching to buy their first 911.

All of this being said, I have never known anyone to go BK who has no debt.

 

PS misspoke in post #44...big cars are bought with cash or cash equivalents (loans against portfolios)

 

Guys at the end of the day these are not assets for investment growth, they will cost you . If you have to finance 75% gee I would not be doing it . I buy enjoy and sell knowing there is a cost 9 out of ten times , personally I have not financed a ‘weekend’ car for a long long time . Cash is king

 

Because there are many dealer mule cars... intended to be flipped when the 6 month "ownership" period is gone. Registered in Montana and then sold off to an actual customer for whatever the market price supports. Will have a dealer excuse tied to the car too.

 

Many years ago, you gave the advice of "buy the Ferrari you can least afford", or something along those lines. When I first read it, I thought it was the most absurd thing I have ever come across in Fchat. Fast forward a few years as I reflect on my past, it was actually one of the most meaningful comments I have read on this forum. Thank you for that.