360 Problem with upshifting from 1st to 2nd gear | FerrariChat

360 Problem with upshifting from 1st to 2nd gear

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by 360JFW, Sep 16, 2023.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. 360JFW

    360JFW Rookie

    Dec 18, 2022
    15
    japan
    Full Name:
    MITSURU WATANABE
    I installed a CS TCU on my 360 2003 model.

    When shifting up from 1st gear to 2nd gear, it may not be possible to shift up smoothly.
    There are times when the gear goes into 3rd gear after not being in gear for about 4 seconds.
    There was nothing like that before I changed TCU.
    Is there anyone who knows the cause?
     
  2. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,755
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Did you run a relearn ?
     
    2NA likes this.
  3. 360JFW

    360JFW Rookie

    Dec 18, 2022
    15
    japan
    Full Name:
    MITSURU WATANABE
    yes.
    I've tried it many times, but it doesn't go away.
    It gets better after you run it for a while and let it warm up.
     
  4. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,755
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    just to be sure .. which function did you use and what diag tool do you have ?
     
  5. 360JFW

    360JFW Rookie

    Dec 18, 2022
    15
    japan
    Full Name:
    MITSURU WATANABE
    The diagnostic machine I use is LAUNCH X431 Pro5.
    We did self-learning according to Ferrari's maintenance manual.

    I also changed the oil and bled the air from the f1 unit, but there was no improvement.
     
  6. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,755
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    So you are using the gear box relearn under the "special functions" under gearbox menu ?

    While doing relearn does it go thru all the gears and finish successfully



    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  7. 360JFW

    360JFW Rookie

    Dec 18, 2022
    15
    japan
    Full Name:
    MITSURU WATANABE
    That's right.
    All gear learning has been successfully completed.

    I have tried relearning many times, but the situation remains the same.
     
  8. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,462
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    How about contacting the person who did your CS controller upgrade.
     
  9. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,755
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    Try bleeding clutch again from both top(near frame) and block (near clutch)



    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  10. 360JFW

    360JFW Rookie

    Dec 18, 2022
    15
    japan
    Full Name:
    MITSURU WATANABE
    I consulted with them immediately, but it was not resolved.
     
  11. 360JFW

    360JFW Rookie

    Dec 18, 2022
    15
    japan
    Full Name:
    MITSURU WATANABE
    thank you.
    I tried bleeding the air many times, but it didn't solve the problem.
    No air comes out.

    With the original TCU, I was able to change gears without any problems, so there may be other problems…
     
  12. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,876
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Did you record the clutch configuration data and P.I.S data from your old TCU, and input those parameters into the new TCU? If not..do that then redo the self learn.
     
    flash32 likes this.
  13. 360JFW

    360JFW Rookie

    Dec 18, 2022
    15
    japan
    Full Name:
    MITSURU WATANABE
    yes.
    I did that.

    Yesterday, I put it back to the original TCU and drove it, and it changes gears without any problems.

    I don't think it's a mechanical problem.
     
  14. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2006
    1,142
    Did you perform a clutch configuration and input the original new clutch value into the new TCU? Keep in mind that the new clutch position should be between 14.2-14.8 and that the PIS on the Stradale will be much more sensitive. If the PIS is to tight the clutch will drag and you cannot get into second if the input shaft speed is not where the TCU wants it to be. I would suggest you configure your new clutch position to your current clutch value even though you will lose your clutch wear. You can manually calculate that later.
    Then adjust your PIS correctly. 4.2 works pretty good as a starting point for the Stradale. Most people set the PIS to tight thinking it saves clutch wear, it does not.
    I suspect your PIS is to tight for the aggressive Stradale software and it is waiting for the input shaft speed to slow down and when that doesn't happen it goes to 3rd as the input and output shaft speeds are close enough top mesh. common issue.
     
    Mel Spillman and tbakowsky like this.
  15. 360JFW

    360JFW Rookie

    Dec 18, 2022
    15
    japan
    Full Name:
    MITSURU WATANABE
    Thank you for explaining in detail.
    Is it okay for the Self-Calibrated Closed Clutch Position value to change between the original TCU and CS?

    Original TCU is 17.82

    CS TCU 18.53

    Why do the parameters differ?
     
  16. 360JFW

    360JFW Rookie

    Dec 18, 2022
    15
    japan
    Full Name:
    MITSURU WATANABE
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,213
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Wade Williams
    The CS TCU updates I have performed for several clients have come with a set up in the TCU. It is not what the current car wants and I have had to change the clutch setting and PIS to what the current car wanted. Sounds like that is what you need to do. I am sure you can work it out with setting changes to get the TCU the parameters it needs to function well. I haven't had one not work yet. My provider even sent one that another client was struggling with and I was able to dial it in on a car I had. That still won't let it function for the other client because his car likely wants to see something different. It just confirmed the TCU was not an issue.

    As I was told, you basically have a copy of a CS TCU with all of the data/parameters that car was using. Your car will want its own data/parameters to function well. Self learn will not get it all, that just lets it learn where the shift forks want to be for the hydraulic actuator. Put in the clutch as a new clutch and see what happens. You will loose clutch wear but I make notes in the file as to what the clutch wear was before and make the client aware of this.
     
  18. 360JFW

    360JFW Rookie

    Dec 18, 2022
    15
    japan
    Full Name:
    MITSURU WATANABE
    Thanks for the message.

    My car's Self-Calibrated Closed Clutch Position is 18.53, does that mean the new clutch position is also the same 18.53?

    Does that mean I should set the clutch level to 0%?
     
  19. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,213
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Wade Williams
    If you set it up as a new clutch, it will learn where everything is and it may not be 18.53. It will set the clutch wear back to zero or very close to zero when you do this. If you adjust PIS afterwards it might make the clutch wear move. This will give you the best performance.
     
    Flyingbrick242 likes this.
  20. Flyingbrick242

    Flyingbrick242 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 26, 2017
    663
    Northern AZ.
    Wade: What is considered normal procedure.?
    Clutch replaced as in OP's situation-Immediately before driving set new clutch position and PIS.? or a bit of clutch applications [short drives] set new clutch and pis..?
    There has been a few who have clarified this but its all not the same.
    Thanks for sharing your expertise with all of us.!
     
  21. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,755
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    According to Ferrari ..bedding in a clutch before setting it up is preferred

    Working with a few people replacing clutches here ..that is what we did

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
    Flyingbrick242 likes this.
  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    36,895
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Cycle Test function on SD2 has been a very valuable diagnostic tool. If your machine has that test try it.
     
  23. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,213
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Wade Williams
    I set it up when I am finished and drive it to bed it in. I want optimum set up from the start and I may do another set up after the bedding in if it needs it. Usually it will be good after the initial set up and bedding.
     
    flash32 and Flyingbrick242 like this.

Share This Page