I finally got everything set to start up and had the nerve to try the key. it popped a bit but didn’t fire. I swapped the Pertronix connections to the coils and it did start and idle. However, it ran very rough and the timing light with #1 plug isn’t close to any timing marks. I tried starting the next day and just cranks with little backfire but won’t fire up. I assumed the first pickup just before the 1/4 dizzy red mark is for the 1/4 coil. However, it did start with it connected to the 5/8 coil. i have attached some pics and did put the first pickup back to the 1/4 coil - seems like this is correct way. The 1/4 dizzy was aligned to the mark at pm1-4 and cam timing mark shown under oil fill cap. The motor was rotated 90 deg to pm5-8 and the 5/8 dizzy mark was aligned to the rotor. Should the first Pertronix pickup go to 1/4 coil? The way I understand it the 1:4 bank standing at the bell housing toward water pump it would be on the right - nearest rear bumper. Also, I noticed some gold shavings in the dizzy cap on both. It does appear a few coil pickups were gouged with the white wide tip rotor. I was going to put the factory ones back in for the time being and see about getting replacements? Main concern is if am I setting the dizzy and Pertronix correctly. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
There (interestingly) really is no "first" requirement -- as long as the two pick-up are mounted 135 degrees apart = the 5/8 pick-up will (correctly) fire 90 degrees of crankshaft rotation after the 1/4 pick-up fires (it just uses a different pole on the rotating magnet piece). The dist rotor end hitting the contact in the dist cap = not right. Either the cap or the rotor is mismade.
I swapped the pickup wires and it is trying to start but just not catching. Seems closest to firing up is with the dizzy set for max advance. It does seem the magnet and pickup placement alters the timing. The Pertronix instructions don’t mention anything about clocking the magnet or even gap to pickup. I was thinking of removing the dizzy and bench testing to see if the magnet clocking has any impact.
I had this setup on my car when purchased. Getting it on the bench will be helpful to better observe the rotor and magnet position at time of firing and allow you to make a Sharpie mark to ensure you insert the distributor shaft correctly in the cam. With the Pertronix setup it's not as visually intuitive as you might think, and you are probably just off a spline (maybe 2). I found that when correctly timed, the distributor housing was several degrees out of alignment with the adaptor plate on the cylinder head (counterclockwise when viewed from the bell housing), though your relative positioning of distributor to cylinder head may be different due to the version of Pertronix mounting plate you have.
I contacted Pertronix and they said the bench test is not valid for the igniter 2. I did confirm 12v on coil with key on. Also, voltage stayed above 8v when cranking. There is a test on the car with coils hooked up. This did show the Hall effect working properly with voltage thru modulating 0 to 9v when cranking. I ended up rotating the rotor spline position on 1/4 dizzy 1 spline CW from mark and it fired up and idled. However, the right exhaust tip had little pressure compared to the left. I did leave the 5/8 dizzy rotor at the mark and wondering if this should also be rotated CW 1 spline. I put the timing light on #5 and still not seeing the mark on flywheel. I plan to check the 1/4 timing next and see if I can get it set to 7 btdc mark.
If the 1-4 timing is correct then 5 - 8 timing has to be correct by definition. The 5 - 8 dizzy can be out of registration which could cause all kinds of strange things. If you get the 1-4 close 7 to 10 degrees BTCD not after like stock with micro switch and 5 - 8 doesn't show correct timing the dizzy has to be clocked wrong. I'd be surprised if those cylinders were firing at all. Keep in mind the engine is like two 4 cylinder engines and it will actually run pretty well with one bank dead. (ask me how I know) On mine the dizzy with the Pertronix modules is not in the same spot as when it had points. It is rotated against dizzy rotation (advanced) to within a 1/8th inch of slot. I've tried several times to get it line up like stock to no avail. Even though the 1 - 4 dizzy is not in the same location I never moved the 5 - 8 dizzy. It still has the points in it just not hooked up and works fine. Mine has Pertronix low resistance coils with no ballast resistors but it actually ran pretty well with stock coils. Keep working is and you'll get it. .I have stock exhaust and the left outlets don't have as much pressure as the right (drivers side) at idle. Probably muffler design.
I agree it seems the 5/8 bank is not firing at the right time. I was able to get about 10 btdc for 1/4 bank and It would idle but very rich above 3000 rpm. I pulled the plugs and most are wet and black. A few had variations of black to white. Ran a compression test and results weren’t horrible: From #1 to #4: 150 psi, 170, 145, 150 #5 -#8 : 170, 170, 170, 160 I did put a tsp of oil down the low cylinders on #1-4 bank. This did increase the compression almost 40 psi. Seems to indicate worn or stuck rings. Ran leak down test and didn’t seem too bad. I did probe the dipstick, carb inlet, exhaust tips, nearby cylinder, and coolant expansion tank. I didn’t hear any noticeable leaks. #1-4: 20%, 15, 20, 21 #5-8: 27, 20, 20, 25 I was going to put plugs back in and see about rotating the 5/8 dizzy spline 1 or 2 from the mark. I read another thread about running rich with no power above 3k rpm. The culprit was a bad catalytic converter. I don’t have the cat but wondering if symptoms could be due to blockage in exhaust? If motor still runs crappy after messing with 5/8 dizzy. I was thinking of removing the muffler and run open header to see if any better. The last time the car ran, about 10 years ago, it ran very rich and smelled pretty bad - like unburnt fuel. I was hoping the recent major service would have corrected. However, it seems to be running just as bad as before. Image Unavailable, Please Login
The muffler is not divided into two separate sections so a blockage would have to be at one of the inlet pipes. Before messing with that I would verify the 5 - 8 dizzy clocking. Here is section from manual detailing the procedure. If you can't see the 5 - 8 marks set 5 to TDC on compression, I use a long stick to get it close, then you should be able to see the timing marks. Next check the 5 - 8 rotor position. It should line up with the #5 terminal. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks. I did set 1/4 and 5/8 timing with rotor set to the mark on each respective dizzy. i did revert back to the small oem rotor due to the wide tip hitting cap. I saw in previous threads that Steve mentioned oem rotor can be fussy with Pertronix unit - due to Pertronix pickup in slightly different location on dizzy. I am working on getting replacement wide tip rotors to see if that is part of issue. It it’s weird where one day it starts and idles and next day just cranks and cranks. Not sure if this is the fussiness described by Steve.
I use "wide tip" rotors for no reason other than the stock (1978) had actually developed cracks where the dizzy shaft goes in. They were the old clear nylon ones. It's kind of an interesting setup. The rotor moves in relation to the cap terminal when it advances. While there is plenty of latitude I suppose it is possible to have it out of alignment on the spline enough, (especially with the wide tip rotors, that the spark would jump to the next terminal under full advance which wouldn't be to good. Not interesting enough to try however. And Steve is correct, as I mentioned before, the Pertronix pickups are in a slightly different position which means, on mine at least, the dizzy does not line up exactly the same on the cam cover flange. Mine is advanced to within 1/8 inch of the end of the slot. Not starting then starting sounds like something else going on. Even when I had mine screwed up it was consistent.
Make sure the C-clip that holds the magnet on the distributor shaft is on or that the magnet is not moving up and down on the shaft. I had similar problems all of a sudden about a year ago. Pulled the distributor to check. applied 12v and ground to the distributor on the bench and spun it monitoring output of the modules. Everything worked great. Put it back in...same thing! Pulled the distributor again to test. This time it was intermittent! What I found was the C-clip that holds the magnet down had come off allowing the magnet to slide up the shaft just enough to not trigger the modules. When the distributor was in the installed position on the motor, the magnet could be where it was supposed to be, or it could move up the shaft just enough to cause it to be intermittent. Not saying that is what is happening to you...just that it is a possibility.
That is Bull! With the distributor on the bench, apply 12v to the red lead of the module and ground to the distributor body. Attach a voltmeter to the other wire of the module and slowing turn the distributor. The voltage will raise when the magnet triggers the module.
I did verify the magnet position since it seems that is a common failure point. The magnet has small gap to baseplate and seems rock solid pushing on it with finger. Doesn’t seem like it can get any lower. I am wondering about the dizzy caps and if they are known to cause intermittent issues.[/QUOTE]
I am getting my newly rebuilt engine started for the first time and have no spark with the MR-183. Am I correct in thinking I should have continuity between the red and black wires from the MR-183 and this is interrupted when the magnet passes the hall effect sensor? Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I have 12.3v at the coils so I believe there is enough juice to get a spark. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I found some troubleshooting info from Pertronix that suggested measurement of resistance between the AL base plate and ground. Mine is 0.1 ohms which is below the maximum so that seems to be okay. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Test that the modules are triggering by the following: With the distributor on the bench, apply 12v to the red lead of the module and ground to the distributor body. Attach a voltmeter to the black wire of the module and the body and slowly turn the distributor. The voltage will raise when the magnet triggers the module.
I would have thought the voltmeter would read 12v until the magnet triggers and then would drop to zero momentarily which triggers the coil field to break and the high voltage spike to the rotor but not so? Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Using a test light the Pertronix is working fine so am guessing the distributor caps are the culprit. These are brand new caps and plug wires so maybe the pointed end screws are not fully seated? Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I had similar concern and did ohm test from cap to end of plug extender to verify continuity. Just make sure the tester is set properly for the high resistance.
What is a typical resistance measurement on the plug wires? I am measuring from 3k ohms to 6.5M ohms so clearly have some issues. These are brand new plug wires and distributor caps. I used a 1.5mm drill bit to remove the red insulation to the point where the black core was exposed. Is that the right approach? Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Okay got all but one wire within 2.05k to 3.86k ohms except one that insists on being 1M ohm. Also removed sensors on Pertronix so I could adjust mounting holes to get the specified 0.03” air gap and noticed this. These do not look new to me! Looks like this is a used module repackaged and sold to me as new. What do you think? It came with no instructions which I thought was odd. Unfortunately bought it probably 5 years ago and only now installing so unlikely I can get my money back [emoji853] Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
