Any comparative info for PS4S vs. Cup2Rs for an F12?

My 4s last 30,000 miles, next time I want to try cup 2r also but I heard it worn out very fast and if u see rain, u die..
so should we wait for S5 to release.
Pirelli suck, they worn out very fast

 

I believe the 4S are more in line with an F12. Cup2s are semi slicks, great from the track but you will wear them very fast, and they will most of the time not be in the right temperature range under normal use.

 

FWIW, I have Cup2s on my 992 GT3 Touring and they work very well for that car on the street.

I also put Cup2s on my manual transmission Hellcat thinking the added grip my be beneficial. I took them off after 100 miles and replaced with the P4S.

My take is that the Cup2s work pretty well once you get the temperatures. However, when the tires are cold...and mounted on a car with significant power (e.g., Hellcat, F12)...the driving experience is less than ideal.

Just one person's perspective.

 

This.

I had Cup2's on my Viper ACR (another high HP RWD car), they were wonderful when at temperature, had to use caution when cold. It will depend on your use case and patience to warm them up.

 

I use the Cup2s on my 1,000 hp/850 lbf-ft Protomotive 997.1TT and they help this car running "safe".
Others that I had before still slipped sometimes end 4th(!) and were too long to warm up on open roads.
Michelin Pilot Sport and Supersport, Pirelli Pzero... very dangerous at this level of torque.
The Cup2s heat up quite quickly, offer nice grip even if they aren't that hot (from 80*F) and surprisingly their mileage is pretty good (much better than the Cup1s).
Sure, they don't shine on wet roads, but unless the rain surprises me I never drive this car in the rain. However, they are way better than Cup1 in this situation.
Now my F12 has the S4S and they are pretty good but need at least 100*F to provide good grip, as I don't use it in the rain either I will probably swap them also against Cup2s once worn out.

 

You forget the whole point of 911s—being rear engined (back heavy) putting more weight (ie traction) on the driven wheels.

 

This is an interesting post. Indeed standard Michelins need at least 100F tire temp to stick safely on the F12. It was always said that the Cup2s needed a lot of heat to stick but your note of 80F make them better. Are you referring to ambient temp or tire temp?

 

Tire temp.
I have almost never issue with the grip since this car runs the Cup2s while it was really dangerous with others. Some guys run the Toyo 888R as well but I'm a "Michelin guy"

 

I had Cup 2s on a 991.2 GT3 (manual transmission), and I have PS4S on my V12 Lusso. Comparing apples to oranges, but the Lusso slips more in the cold, even with manettino in snow mode or wet mode, and not driving aggressively. This is especially noticeable when turning from a stop, at temps in the 50s (F) or below.

I’m sure the HP difference has something to do with it, but driving gently should at least partly negate this. Perhaps more important is the location of the engine relative to the rear tires. Regardless, I felt much more planted in the GT3 than I do in the Lusso, even when it was cold out. Once the PS4S has warmed up to 80 degrees F, or so, grip seems to be much better.

With standing water, I might have a different opinion. I’ve driven the GT3 in a torrential downpour with standing water everywhere. It was scary, but I took it slowly and didn’t sense any wheelspin. I haven’t faced such conditions in the Lusso, but I would think there would be more margin for error (as long as the tires could get warm).

In snow, I would be a nervous wreck driving the GT3 on Cup 2s.

IMO, Cup 2s are overall great tires—as long as you don’t misuse them. However, I acknowledge there could be differences in tires of the same model that are made for different car manufacturers.


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Cup2 are a good choice for dry driving. If you are in the wet, they can become tricky quickly. If you only drive your F12 in dry weather you should be OK- but also consider, all the suspension components were not designed for this level of grip- so if you are pushing the car often, you will wear out things like bushings a little more quickly.

 

Bruce,

The F12 is a GT that would benefit from PS4S more than it would 2rs especially for street use only as you mentioned in your original post.

You will be sacrificing ride quality for no additional street benefit with the 2rs, the 2rs will definitely have more road noise, they will be stiffer, and they will tramline.

They do look better though!

 

One other thing to consider is the Cup2 tires have considerably stiffer sidewalls than the 4S. This benefits handling but hurts the ride quality. My own take away is while you can do it, I think the ethos of the F12 is more in the realm of tires like the 4S- and I think Michelin is now with a successor- though it will take time for that to be available for every car.


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It was noted here before that the Cup2R's compound would age out before regular street tires which would be of concern to folks that put more time on the tires than miles. Once they get hard you lose a lot of grip which defeats the purpose. That said, the stickier tires wear faster so maybe it offsets. The real concern for me in a road tire has always been ride quality. That is the only reason I have returned tires in the past and its been more than once.

 

My take, having experience with three different tires on 992 GT3:

1. P4S: a very nice and grippy street tire, can take light circuit use. Compared with other two, much better in cold or wet.
2. Cup 2: good compromise for a street driven car that also sees regular track use. Slightly harsher, grippier, does not like wet and especially cold, but will not try to kill ju in these conditions. Shorter life than P4S, but not bad.
3. Cup 2 R: THE tire for setting record lap times at the moment. About half tire life of Cup 2. Super grippy when hot. Aquaplanes very easily. Can be scary when cold. I would only consider this for street driving if you live somewhere warm and dry.

 

I have the Cup 2R’s currently on my 812. Less than 2,000 on the tires and they’re already bald. I live in Florida so when it’s dry out it really does just hook up and go but if it were up to me I’d get the 4S just for the better tread ware rating and driving in rain is a lot safer.. with that said — the setup I’m currently on is 4s in the front and cup 2r in the rear.