Fatal Ferrari Crash in Sardinia | Page 6 | FerrariChat

Fatal Ferrari Crash in Sardinia

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Marcel Massini, Oct 2, 2023.

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  1. 348Jeff

    348Jeff Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2011
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    Video of the aftermath here:





    Total failure by the Ferrari driver to read the situation. Putting aside the 101 other things that were wrong with this situation who in their right mind tries to overtake a car that isn't tucked well and truly inside their own lane.

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  2. Condor Man

    Condor Man F1 Rookie
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    The older I get the more I start to become aware that different people think different things and that no matter how right I think I am, there will always be other opinions. So I am becoming more respectful of other's and their way of thinking. Let's just say, I am becoming more open minded.

    I suppose my whole disappointment in the driver of the red Ferrari is that he had his eyes forward and therefore should have been on high alert.

    Especially given that there is no doubt that the Blue Lambo was wreckless and crazy and for this reason the red Ferrari should have taken more caution.
     
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  3. pdxjim488

    pdxjim488 Karting
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    :33 mark And the 24 car passing caused oncoming motorcycle to stay to his right avoiding head on.
     
  4. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Great points by many folks here. Were both driving irresponsibly? Demonstrably yes.

    So, since both were illegally passing, in balance, that cancels each other out. Now, we regress to standard passing laws.

    Vehicle Code 21753 states:

    Except when passing on the right is permitted, the driver of an overtaken vehicle shall safely move to the right-hand side of the highway in favor of the overtaking vehicle after an audible signal or a momentary flash of headlights by the overtaking vehicle, and shall not increase the speed of his or her vehicle until completely passed by the overtaking vehicle.



    I have not seen folks regularly honk or flash (which is new to me) passing - would this technically put the Ferrari in the wrong no matter what? Perhaps!

    Assuming this happened in California, it's clear-cut.

    If the Ferrari was in the Left lane already (albeit illegally) - it had "right of way."

    If the Ferrari was in the right lane - the Lambo had "right of way" (or if the honk/flash enforced)


    Cheers
     
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  5. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    I sympathize with both your points, I get it. I think all of this can be summed of if a maneuver can be executed 'safely' regardless of who has 'right of way?'

    Put another way, just because a person runs across the road, should you accelerate toward them? However, when assigning blame, it's been my experience who has 'right of way' goes a long way to deciding that.

    This is just me armchair lawyering, I would love to see a real traffic attorney's opinion, even if that means getting my points completely destroyed.
     
  6. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    That is a good point, but the Lambo did sway left to right, right to left, which, to my eyes, made the pass ambiguous. Would I dare pass with such an erratic driver? No! That's me, though.

    The Ferrari was passing safely for 2 of the 3 seconds when the Lambo couldn't make up their mind - it was only the final 1 second when the Lambo side-swiped the Ferrari - where tragedy struck.

    There's that saying what's behind me doesn't matter, which often pins the blame on accidents on the person that rear-ends someone. (Not adhering to a safe following distance.)

    But in this case, this was a clear "side-bump" - that happened to me 25 years ago on the freeway. I was in the fast lane going constant speed, and a car (I wasn't even in their blind spot) merged into my lane, hitting my passenger door. CHP was clear about who was in the wrong there.
     
  7. ShineKen

    ShineKen Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Being on a lane designated to opposing traffic is near equivalent to running a red light. The point is, the car isn’t supposed to be there at that time, so it is the onus of the driver making the illegal move to be aware of his surroundings and proceed as cautiously as possible. Not the other way around.

    If you run a red light, all bets are off. You have no “traffic rights.” Someone could run a stop sign and hit you and it is still on you. It’s not everyone else’s duty to see you.

    Ferrari driver made the illegal move first. The Lambo had just finished making an illegal move and was now in a legal position attempting to make an illegal move. The Ferrari is already in an illegal position and include the fact he came from behind, he had the best view to access the situation, but he decided to extend his risky/illegal maneuver as opposed to performing it in spurts (risk management).


    I can’t reiterate enough. If one is going to take a chance on performing an illegal move, the onus is on you to look out for everyone else and drive as defensively as possible, not the drivers around you. You cannot assume people see you or should see you. It is equivalent to getting T-boned for running a red light.


    Realizing this could save your life one day.
     
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  8. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #133 paulchua, Oct 9, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2023
    It depends on the state. Italy falls under Contributory Negligence. so both parties would be wrong equally.

    According to Italian Law, in the case of a road accident, equal contributory negligence is always applied by presumption until proven otherwise: each party has contributed equally to cause the accident, even when only one person or vehicle has suffered damages.

    Nevertheless, the equal contributory negligence shall not apply if it is proven that one of the parties did not contribute to cause the road accident.
    In particular, the party shall demonstrate not only the violation of the road and traffic regulations but shall also demonstrate his own positive conduct in compliance with these regulations.

    However, it is important to note that contributory negligence is only presumed when it is impossible to determine the actual extent of the relevant liabilities. Therefore, if the sole liability of one party is ascertained, then the other party will be exempted from the presumption and relevant burden of proof.
     
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  9. paulchua

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    #134 paulchua, Oct 9, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2023
    I know lots of differing views, curious what folks say on who is at fault here?

    If you say the SUV, and in the Sardina case the Ferrari, would love to know the difference, (besides in Italy, both were doing illegal passes.)

    I've always thought checking blind spots are still one of those things they still teach in driver's ed. If not, it would explain a lot with what I see driving around today's roads...
     
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  10. 1Superleggera

    1Superleggera Formula 3
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    They were driving like adolescent children. You see you guys on Harleys thinking they’re big stuff and you see guys in Semi trucks thinking they’re big stuff.

    So, you throw an adult child in a super car for the afternoon and they feel invincible.
     
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  11. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Best way of staying alive is avoiding stupid people, particularly stupid groups of people. I used to run with a select group of Ferrari guys. Early Sunday morning was our chosen time. We were on back country roads. Even then, **** can happen.
     
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  12. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Definitely some bikers, but I actually never saw a semi-truck hot rodder, usually, I've found them to be quite courteous. I did enjoy Duel though.
     
  13. ShineKen

    ShineKen Two Time F1 World Champ
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    According to that excerpt, both parties are equally at fault, which imo is probably the best legal conclusion to draw. To me, it is either both are at fault or the Ferrari is at fault. It is certainly not 100% on the Lambo. The Lambo is the guy who ran a stop sign and hit a Ferrari who had just run a red light. The Ferrari ran the red light first, which means he voluntarily put himself in a position of high risk. Getting hit from the side because he wasn't seen is part of that risk.
     
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  14. Sfiga

    Sfiga Karting

    Jan 23, 2014
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    Lambo was doing the wrong thing but the Ferrari was in the wrong. The Lambo had 2 wheels in the lane which is why he didn’t check mirrors. As far as he’s concerned it’s only oncoming traffic to watch for when you’re in that position. Only Lewis Hamilton would have tried to do what the Ferrari did.
     
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  15. bumcubed

    bumcubed Karting

    Apr 15, 2022
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    I think that the lambo v ferrari in situation is in pari delicto which would bar damages if one sued the other. In this case I think contributory negligence will just apportion damages due to innocent third parties like that camper truck.
     
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  16. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
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    Whoever was in the wrong, the Ferrari occupants paid with their lives, and apparently the Lambo driver has jetted back to India and I doubt will ever return to Italy regardless, he and his wife got to live, had he not pulled across so would the Ferrari people.

    The bike rider had a lucky escape, as did any other vehicles heading that way just in front of the camper.

    All in that group were acting like drunk teens.
     
  17. Senshi458

    Senshi458 Formula Junior
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    If you check the video

    Check 0:33 you will see the blue Lambo overtake the German turists and almost drive down the biker, as you can see he should have driven right in to right but he still after the overtake keep more than half of the car in the left lane... This clear show the driver of blue Lambo very bad driver

    And when the Portofino was overtaking he drove back in his lane to show the Ferrari Portofino driver he can overtake him. check the video 0:39 then the blue Lambo all the sudden drive left.

    I think the blue Lambo driver have not much driving experience
     
  18. simon klein

    simon klein Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I think this 'apportioning blame' thing has been done to death.

    In the end everyone involved,Lambo, Ferrari and organisers were in error in sooo many ways.
     
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  19. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    I wouldn't be surprised! TY!
     
  20. becker

    becker Formula Junior

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    What u need to do is expect some drivers will do the unthinkable & b ready 4 it … and in these events there’s a mix with a driver(s) with little experience getting hot … when I just got my f-car went to a rally all cool & then to a Lambo meetup & there just getting to the place a red f-car tried to pass & hit a Countach not badly but put a bad nasty dent on the nose & smashed side markers … reading similar things there I avoided those & went on to track events
     
  21. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    If they were driving Camry's the same way the result would be the same. The type of car made no difference other than perhaps being a convertible.
     
  22. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
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    The real lesson is always watch out for Lamborghini drivers, particularly rented Lamborghini drivers.
     
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  23. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    That's a good em.
     
  24. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

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    Certainly can say the same about Ferrari drivers……
     
  25. Eric C

    Eric C F1 World Champ
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    This is literally how every local drive goes down here is STL. I refuse to go anymore.

    One of our locals was killed in a cruise a few weeks ago in his Lambo.
     

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