LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

And it's gonna feel like **** with a puny TT V6 in it.

It's not logical at all.
All those car are powered by a V6 due to stupid emmision regulations madeup by woke imbeciles.
A street car is bound by no such garbage rules and engineers can use whatever engine they want.

Your posts suggest otherwise.

If enough Ferrari customers make "noise" that they do not want a garbage puny V6, Ferrari management will have no other choice but to comply and use a glorious NA V12 or V10 again.

 

I hope they listened us and develop different hypercar than this LMH inspired one with v6TT.

If the weight is down to 1000kg, then I will rethink about it as a great engine choice.

Front electric mortor v6TT hybrid is worse than 296 as a fun driver car.



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To me the visual part of the car is just as important if not more so than some of the other aspects. When you lift the hood of an NA V12 and that manifold and intake runner lineup go on forever it just makes the car worth it. A diminutive motor is not a plus for me regardless of the numbers.

 

No one said that about the 296.

Where do you live? Road cars aare restricted by laws, not race cars!

There is a difference between recognising the reality and wanting something else.

Get over that V10 nonsense, Ferrari never had a road going V10. The V12 is the best engine ever, but there are pros and cons in every configuration. If the new hypercar traounces the LaFerrari (which it should), everyone will be happy. Apart from some kids...

 

It's a car mate, what matters is how it drives!

 

I just have to remember Ferrari isn't like Lamborghini where Lamborghini is known for their rebellion. As you see everyone seems to be downgrading and Lamborghini is charging forward regardless of what is happening. So I believe it will be a sight to behold. Excited about the release. I'm sure I'll like it a lot more the closer it gets to the reveal but it just shows how much of a step forward if you'd say the Laferrari was and somewhat still is today. That's some BIG shoes to fill.

 

The LaFerrari successor will have some big shoes to fill indeed, but it will make the LaFerrari feel slow, as the LaFerrari made the Enzo feel slow.

I know you don't care much about history, but Enzo used to say that the best Ferrari is the next one!

 

Personally I would be happy with Ferrari selling a rear mid engined V12 car in the regular range ..

 

I did. I'd take a 458 over it any day of the week.

No, they are not.
There are no laws that say a car cannot have a big displacement NA V10 or V12 in it. There are also no laws regarding weight or downforce numbers.
The ideal hypercar weighs 1000 kg, has tons of downforce, a NA V10 or V12, and a central driving position.

The reality is nothing is preventing Ferrari from using a V12.

So what, they can make one now. Use the one from the F2004 and improve it. That's the best engine ever made.

Sometimes, how you get to a place is more important than getting there.
It's embarrassing to have a puny V6 in a hypercar.

 

Yes I know many things about Ferraris history just not that far back. I know of Enzo saying the next Ferrari but I'm a bit bummed about it. The AMG One wasn't as impressive as I'd hoped especially next to a Aston Martin Valkyrie with it's 6.5L V12. It's just that super/hyper cars should be something exclusive especially at this level. FIA doesn't want V10s and V12s anymore because they say it's too loud and won't be accepted by society So to pump up a V6 to me is insane at that exclusive level and price range. I can't change it, I'd even go over a V10 since Ferrari never used one especially on their halo car. I'd even cheer for this over a V12 all day. Looking for something risky and bold from them that their tradition wouldn't usually do.

 

Forget it forever !!!

 

A V6 doesn’t have to be any less powerful than a V12. Simply a matter of friction, capacity and breathing. The question of V12 versus V6 is about character, weight (mildly) and packaging. The racing format is V6 currently and Ferrari hyper cars have traditionally had a link to the racing tech. For example front V12 in the original GTO, mid V8 turbo in F40, mid V12 in F50 (it actually was an F1 engine), KERS in LaFerrari etc. Ferrari could well think it incongruous to have so much race learning about the V6 format and not use it. What does it allow that a V12 wouldn’t? Mainly packaging. When you look at the LaFerrari, it is beautiful. But it is already very long in the wheelbase because of the length of that engine and gearbox behind the seats.

Aero has been a more important feature of the various recent F1 formulae and teams have come up with all sorts of ideas because the packaging of the V6 KERS system allows for much more creative thinking than the old V10s did. My guess is we are going to see something very aero-led in the F250. Pieces moving on and off the body like one of the recent cars they showed (I forget the name). At the same time, the wheelbase should be able to be kept under control. To simply add more power and tech to the LaFerrari format would require even greater length out the back, which would be aesthetically and dynamically challenging.

Personally I’m fine with a V6 if there is a good purpose to it. The best cars have always worked that way - 930 turbo was created because of the turbos on the 917, F40 used a V8 turbo because they wanted light weight and high power and there was no solution possible with the flat 12 of the day, LaFerrari used KERS because they had learned about it from F1 and it got them to virtually 1,000hp from the roughly 730hp of the F12 - a marked increase from the Enzo. There are many more examples but the point is the format is only partly responsible for creating a great car. And it is also possible to have the most favoured format yet still produce a poor car (Aventador is an ideal example of that, at least in terms of the way it drives).

The conclusion can only be for us to not prejudge and wait and see. If they choose V6 and it allows them to do some very special new things, the car will go down in history alongside Ferrari hyper cars with V8 and V12 engines just fine. Would I prefer a V12? Of course. But not at the expense of the car being a few bhp more and a different look. They already did the SP3. The F250 needs to take aero to new levels for Ferrari’s hyper cars and it needs to have new and interesting tech that excites. Otherwise what exactly is its point?

 

I'm expecting roughly 200+ hp and , hopefully some weight less.
But, more than that, i hope it can be at least as beautiful, but have a doubt it will.

 

I'm a fan of TT V6's. The one in the Raptor is so much lighter and more powerful, it leaves the first gen V8 for dead.

It's also the same engine as the latest Ford GT, just tuned different. A lot of parts are interchangeable.

 

Valid points.
Wait and see.

 

So you only Drive a V12 ???

 

The 458 was a great sports car, but the 296 is much better in everything, apart from the sound.

Of course they are. They are called emissions and noise regulations!

That is you ideal hypercar, not everyone else's.

The Formula 1 V12 was even better!

What is embarrassing is the american mentality of "biggers is always better". People should embrace technology and its advancements.

The Valkyrie is a masterpiece, no arguing there! It is way too compromised for road use though. You need to wear sound cancelling earphones, for crying out loud!

That is incorrect. The reason for downsizing was not the noise, but the emissions. I know it is hypocritical, since they use huge 747 cargo planes to trot the globe, but there you are. In their defence, they will start using CO2 neutral jet fuel in the near future.

I would expect more than a 200 hp increas, since the SF90 XX is already at 1030 HP.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I like aggressive cars, not classically beautiful/soft ones.

 

Always a pleasure to read your thoughts!
Now, please tell us about your LaFerrari! I guess that's a car you will never sell.

 

not enough of an increase imo, will need several hundred to stay relevent in the hypercar market for more than a year or so as everything is so fast

 

i guess you are right. It all depends of the path they chose. You can go with overall smaller car, lightweight, so you don't need a huge amount of HP and downforce like GM did with t.50. You can chose do go with power like Bugatti does.
Or insane aero what AM did with Valkyrie.
or chose what Mercedes did with One, very complex way(they did it , in a way , with F50)
I wish they go the first way, V12 reving north of 10000 and lightweight... but know they didn't.
I guess it will be some combo of merc and valkyrie(not saying they are copying them ,but the engine will be V6 like in merc but it be more drivable and less complex, hopefully lighter and more powerful .
At the same time it will be more usable and practical for the road than valkyrie is.

 

an LMP based roadcar would have deffo been the easiest solution to get comparable performance to the next crop of hypercars

but as it stands if it's a bespoke car then it's most likely going be much much heavier than the t50s or the valk so they're going to be forced to have to throw a serious amount of power

 

Possibly. Based on the car itself we should never sell it. But, I’m hoping to have the chance to get an allocation for F250. In which case I have to think very carefully about keeping both. Most of the cars we keep for the long term are ones that we have spec’d from new and usually at the factory on either Atelier or TM programme. You just end up feeling more attached to them. So an interesting dilemma. Keep the V12 car that for me is the best in the world. Or replace it with a V6 hypercar that we spec from new.

I have found that it’s quite hard to drive a super-expensive car that you paid more than double the original sticker for. Our Competizione already has over 1,000 miles on it. The fact that it will probably never be worth less than what we paid for it, irrespective of how we use it, is a very big thing. A V6, light, fast, beautiful F250 that we spec and can use versus a LaFerrari that we didn’t spec and use less but enjoy owning…..and has a V12. Could be a hard call! We could try and own both but I somehow feel that F250 could be, shall we say, expensive?!

Our LaFerrari is currently in for the de rigeur battery change which will be done under warranty. Some might moan at that but an F40 has to have its tanks done every 10 years so it’s a similar thing. I’ve driven only around 50 miles with it this year. Enough to know what a wonderful car it is. Actually, it isn’t really a car. It’s automotive art and an exercise in how to build a moving vehicle that takes every element to the max - looks, sound, feel, smell. It energises every sense, most of them before it even moves. Can the F250 beat that? It’ll be interesting to see.

 

Couldn't afford a HALO car, I've had NA V8's only.
But I've been a passenger and also driven a 296. I'd take a 458 over it any day of the week.

 

According to your definition of "better" perhaps, according to mine no.
For me the better supercar is the one that gives me the better overall experience when you add up better, driving sensation and sound. That's the 458.

Like I already told you a million times, supercar manufacturers get to set their own emmision standards. Nobody's putting the idiot CEOs of these companies to set them that low. And noise regulations vary depending on where you live.

I know, I'm more of a purist and want the racecar driving sensation.

Not for me.

**** technology, I don't want it.

Not a problem as far as I'm concerned.

They downsized cause they are IDIOTS.

The Enzo was very aggresive. And it's one of the best looking cars ever made.

 

can't go that far in the future...