Andretti Global F1 team

It's not even news, having been mentioned many months ago(by Mario..?) that people are on staff already for Andretti F1. I suppose that is a normal thing for a prospective F1 team....?
Recently, there's been an infusion of $250 million into the Andretti coffers. Where it came from and what it's to be used for is unknown, apparently. This is the same amount as the Andretti Acquisition SPAC, but is NOT the same money.

 

That’s all true, but do you believe that investors would put up the money if a viable development plan weren’t in place? Aside from that, if Andretti failed wouldn’t that give the likes of Toto and Mr. Spice a bit of Schadenfreude? And please don’t say they…along with some here…wouldn’t relish that.

 

I go with Andretti's record over your opinion of it. Where does Haas and Alpha Touri and Alfa Romeo differ from your description of Andretti? And how many engine suppliers are there in F1...certainly not the same as in past days of F1. Matra, Ferrari, Ford, Renault, Alfa Romeo, BMW, Mercedes, Honda, BRM...and how many do we have today? As for CART and Indy Cars being spec series...that was an evolution based on cost cutting...just like F1 has become and is still becoming. Andretti certainly sounds like someone who wants to win, and not just picking up an entry check from Liberty.

 

It's not MY opinion, it's the arguments the existing teams use or will use to oppose Andretti's entry.

It doesn't bother me if they get in one way or the other. I just try to explain what's at stake.

 

In these cases, investors pledge money to be delivered later if certain conditions are met.

If that doesn't happen (often there is a deadline attached to their offer), the investors retract.

 

I don’t know that every case is the same, but even so, a fairly detailed prospectus…which any serious investor would vet independently…must be a part of the process. The GRRC web site has published an opinion piece on how Andretti could be good for F1. I haven’t read it yet so I have no comment about its credibility.

 

I think that having 22 cars on the grid should be good for F1 in broad terms.

 

I think a grid of 20 would be good…..the fastest 20 qualifiers of 26 entries.

 

I don't think one can contemplate that scenarion anymore.
It existed in the 80 at the time of pre-qualifications, and it ruined some teams. At one GP, 36 cars turned up, if I remember correctly !
How can you expect to take 26 cars all over the world to 24 GPs, and have some of them not participating in the races ?
Where would they get their income from ? With the money a team has to put upfront to get to a race, it's just not a feasable option.

 

Lance did not participate in the previous over seas GP.

But it would be an event to see 26 cars on the track in Q1 at Monaco !!!

 

Cadillac should need to get to work soon if they 'building' a PU. What a mess this is going to be possibly. The Ben Sulayem hand-holding continues!

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/andretti-will-not-be-left-without-f1-engine-supply-says-fia/10533382/

Andretti will not be left without F1 engine supply, says FIA
FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem says Andretti will not be left without an engine deal if it gains a Formula 1 entry, despite current uncertainty about its plans.

By: Jonathan Noble
Oct 16, 2023, 12:22 PM

Andretti has been given approval by the FIA to join the F1 grid from 2025 at the earliest, subject to it agreeing a commercial deal with FOM - which is far from guaranteed.

Andretti plans to bring the Cadillac name into F1 with it, but the timeframe makes it unlikely that it will have its own power unit ready for several years. It means the American squad would need a customer deal in place for any initial foray in F1.

This had originally been expected to be a supply of Renault engines, but it emerged last week that a pre-contract the team had with the French manufacturer had now lapsed, and talks had not resumed.

The situation means that, for now, Andretti does not have a firm engine contract in place.

Although F1’s current sporting regulations are designed to ensure that no team is left without a power unit supply, there is some debate about whether or not a new entry is afforded the same privilege as current competitors of being guaranteed engines.

Ben Sulayem says he is clear, however, that Andretti would qualify for a supply from 2025 or 2026 as he said the long-term aim was for General Motors/Cadillac to produce its own power unit.

“We are demanding that and we will see that,” Ben Sulayem told selected media, including Autosport, about the potential for an engine from GM. “But engines are not built in four or five years.

“At the beginning, Andretti will have to agree on one of two engines.”

Ben Sulayem believes that Appendix 6 of F1’s Sporting Regulations will apply to Andretti in giving it the option of requesting a supply from one of the manufacturers that is supplying the fewest customer teams.

This is expected to be Honda and Alpine for 2026, both of whom are currently only committed to supply one team.

While Audi will also only be delivering products for its own works team, clauses in the rules means new engine suppliers are initially exempt from having to supply customers.

Ben Sulayem said there was no doubt in his mind that the rules were explicit in ensuring a supply for Andretti.

“It works that, with the rules, nobody can say no to them,” he said. “If all the teams say no, then the FIA has the power to go on and say, the least two [engine manufacturers] being used, then we put them in a draw, and we take one.

“It’s not a secret, and I'm sure it is either Alpine or Honda, and one of them would win because that is the rules.”

For Andretti to secure a customer supply from Alpine or Honda, it would need to put in a request before 1 June of the year prior to its entry.

But despite Ben Sulayem’s view, there are some within F1 who are not so convinced the regulations are framed in such a way to guarantee supply to new teams.

Alpine interim team boss Bruno Famin said the situation was complicated, but his company would fully comply with any ruling.

Asked about potential uncertainty over the matter, he said: “We will not answer in that detail.

“There are a lot of regulations, there are the sporting regulations, and we have the Concorde Agreement. We're going to follow the rules, whether from the regulator or the promoter.”

Ben Sulayem believed the push to get GM to build its own engine longer term was great news for F1.

“I am optimistic with GM coming with the power unit,” he said. “I am very optimistic, not just optimistic.

“In the last 20 months to have two major OEMs, which is Audi and Andretti/GM, and to have a power unit from Audi, and we are on the right track of having a power unit from Cadillac, that is an achievement.”

 

MBS keeps poking the hornet nest, and interfering with the financial side of F1.
This could end up in a conflict between the FIA and the teams.
I don't know if FOCA still exist (Formula One Constructors Association), but the last time they won the war against the FIA !

 

Steiner has an 'interesting' view lol.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1s-covid-crisis-a-warning-over-11th-team-approval-says-steiner/10533695/

F1’s COVID crisis a warning over 11th team approval, says Steiner
Haas boss Guenther Steiner thinks the crisis Formula 1 faced during the COVID-19 pandemic shows why it should not risk destabilising current teams by adding an 11th entry.

By: Jonathan Noble
Oct 17, 2023, 11:16 AM

The American Andretti outfit is hoping to agree a commercial deal with FOM to enter F1 from 2025 at the earliest, after being given approval to join the series by the FIA.

But there is no guarantee FOM will approve Andretti’s bid, as it questions whether or not there is a tangible benefit to grand prix racing in adding an extra team to the grid.

Rival teams are also against the addition of Andretti as they fear the commercial impact that could come from having to share prize money with an extra outfit.

And, as Steiner points out, while F1 is going through a boom period right now so a small loss of prize money would not make a dramatic impact, he says lessons should be taken on board from what happened when COVID struck.

In particular, he thinks the speed by which F1 went from being comfortable to there being a risk of losing almost half the grid as the pandemic bit, highlights the caution that needs to be taken in adjusting the finances of the current teams.

“In the current situation, we are stable, but it is not like we are making hundreds of millions of profits,” said Steiner. “We are still trying to get our budgets together to work on the budget cap and all that stuff.

“I would like to go back to 2020 when I remember sitting in these video meetings when the pandemic hit and four teams were [questioning], ‘are we here next year or not?’

“We were all struggling, trying to keep alive. And a lot of people and a lot of team owners put their money into it to stay alive, and to make F1 what it is now. I think there is value to that as well.”

He added: “ I think most of the teams are asking why would we dilute what we have got, just to get somebody else, when Formula 1 is booming?

“Because who knows what in three or four years will [happen]. And I go back, it's also only in 2020 when we were struggling to stay alive as Formula 1, because if four teams fall out, there are only six left. And why would you make it weaker now?

“If something comes up again, we need to be as strong as we can be, the 10 teams which are here, which got through the hard times.”

Steiner stands by his long-standing opinion that Andretti’s entry should only get approved if there is tangible evidence its arrival will bring benefit to the entire grid.

Asked about the potential of Andretti to bring fresh sponsor interest to F1, Steiner said: “[There] could be, but there's a lot of could, should, would. But if they can show that they bring something which we accept, then it's fine.”

Steiner insists he is not alone in the paddock in feeling that now is not the right time to be considering an 11th-team entry.

“FOM has to see it, not me, they've got the big picture,” he said. “It's not only about Haas that doesn't want them. It's general, Formula 1 is not convinced that there is a need for an 11th team.

“Don't go down: ‘it's Andretti.’ Whoever [it is], F1 at the moment is not convinced an 11th team is bringing added value. Keep it simple.”

 

It would be easy to return to the earlier form of qualifying...one hour for all the cars to go out and set their best lap time. Each team selects when they want to go out or sit in the pit. You could even expand the time to 90 minutes. Whatever is your best lap time during the session is your position on the race grid. I remember seeing Schumacher take a few poles under this format...very exciting.

 

FA has been asking for this format to return. The current one no longer works. I agree. Back to single car qualy. Better for traffic at many circuits etc. Even the sponsors of the teams get one on one TV time prescribed. Fewer FIA penalty issues as well. His idea is good.

 

If I remember correctly, the present system with 3 quali session (Q1, Q2 and Q3) was started at the demand of the drivers.
It was to eliminate the slower cars from the last 5 minutes mad rush.
Some drivers had complained that too many cars were still on the track toward the end.

I think they should do away with qualifications totally, and officially time the cars during the 3 practice sessions.
This way they all would have plenty of time for a good lap, and without any pressure.
The grid would be formed from the best practice time for each driver.
But I know that from the organisers' point of view, there would be less drama, and therefore it would be less entertaining.

 

If you don't have qualifying--why not have 4 practice sessions ??
{{I mean; what are we going to do Saturday afternoon ??}}

 

Or maybe make it a 2-day weekend with only 2 practice sessions on Saturday ?

At one point, I think Liberty was looking into that (2 days).

 

I'd rather keep it three days and have fewer of them. 16 races is enough of a season. The first 8, the summer break, and then the final 8. At least ten of the races are now outside of Europe. I'd cut that down to no more than 5 out of 16...and let all the non-European countries get them on alternate years. 11 races, all in Europe is true to the birth of the sport. UK, Netherlands, France, Italy, Austria, Spain, Monaco, Spa, Hungary, plus one more. And no back to back weekends, always a week in between, with an extra week now and then when traveling to the fly away races.

 

True, but 16 races will never bring the same income as 24 !!

Here like everywhere, we are in the GROWTH spiral, it's more and more, and more ...

 

Well another 'analysis' of the FOM side of the evaluation of the Andretti bid. I dont see him on the grid before 2027, if ever.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-andretti-f1-hopes-are-not-over-even-if-fom-says-no/10534198/

Why Andretti F1 hopes are not over, even if FOM says no
Andretti has been given the green light by the FIA but now faces the difficult task of convincing Formula 1 and its teams of the commercial value that it can bring to the sport, a far tougher test than any it has passed so far

Author Jonathan Noble
updated Oct 18, 2023, 5:35 PM

Despite Andretti Formula having been given the seal of approval by the FIA to join the Formula 1 grid, its entrance to the series is still far from guaranteed.

The key factor now is that it must agree commercial terms with FOM before it will officially be granted a slot.

This demand for there to be a commercial deal in place forms part of the two documents (one regulatory/governance, the other financial) that come under the auspices of the current Concorde Agreement – the document that dictates how F1 is run from 2021 to 2025.

Whereas under previous Concorde Agreements teams could race in F1 without a commercial deal in place – they just would not receive any prize money – there is now a specific stipulation that means no outfit gets on the grid unless it has a financial deal sorted with FOM.

This means Andretti’s fate is very much in the hands of FOM, which is understood to be lukewarm to the idea of having an 11th team join F1 right now.

In terms of where we go from here, FOM wants to spend some time digging into a costs/benefits analysis of what it means to have an extra team on the grid before it makes its call on whether or not it wants to do a deal with Andretti.

This counts not only for the financial impact that current teams would face in sharing their prize pot 11 times rather than 10 but also in terms of wider costs on the championship.

F1 circuits have got well used to running 10 teams, and not all venues (it is understood to be actually less than half) are geared up to having garage, paddock and Paddock Club facilities for an 11th competitor right now.

Expanding the facilities (even though theoretically required in regulations that allow up to 12 teams), comes with a cost – and the many millions this could cost is all money that would come out of the prize pot that is shared among teams.

FOM is not in a rush to push on with its analysis and it is likely we will only find out towards the start of next year whether its assessment is that F1 gains from an 11th team, or it has decided that right now is not the right time for it to happen.

"There is resistance always at the beginning but once it's done, you don't leave a door open" Mohammed Ben Sulayem
Such a timeframe makes it nigh on impossible for Andretti to make it on to the grid for 2025, even though it has begun assembling staff and has started working on its car design.

Any negative call by FOM for 2025 would in theory also be valid for the short-term future too, because there are unlikely to be conditions that would change its mind over matters.

But a no will not be the end of the road for Andretti, because there is one critical factor at play that could dramatically changes things – and it is that the current Concorde Agreement runs out at the end of 2025.

And while some parties may be eager to see a lot of the current terms roll over into the new Concorde that will run from 2026, the situation surrounding new teams will almost certainly be something that there will be a push for movement on – especially from the FIA’s side.

So, if the FIA stands firm in its belief that the door needs to be better left open for a new F1 squad, and it demands a more equitable process that lets valid entries like Andretti in, then that could be the route that helps get the American squad in.

After all, for the Concorde Agreement to be valid, it needs approval from all the parties involved – the teams, FOM and the FIA – so it’s not a case that two of those elements can railroad through demands that keeps an 11th team out.

FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem says he is leaving negotiations to a team of representatives he has assembled to deal with the talks and wants to ensure that the final agreement is one that works for everyone.

 

Interesting to see how Sulayem may have an end game strategy where he has an ability to enforce some control.

 

Is this idea any more than pure speculation?

 

How long before Mohammed Ben Sulayem could be replaced ? (That was the first thing that came to my mind.)

FOM and the teams have just to let that thing drag on and on.

 

Endless ways for the Teams and Liberty to 'game' this.