IF Bernie is correct on these two points: - Crashgate was known to the FIA in 2008 (quite likely) - There was a rule or statute stating that all points from Singapore 2008 should have been erased when cheating was revealed (quite unlikely) THEN Massa has a case. It's not a question of what Massa wants ... it's simply a question of whether or not there's factual evidence to support these two points by Bernie. By the way ... good luck to Toto In 2021, there was no cheating. Nonetheless, IF we take the exact same "remedy" ... namely, erase all points from the controversial race in 2021 (because some fans didn't like the outcome) ... THEN Verstappen STILL remains the 2021 WDC
To my knowlege, there is no such rule. When cheating is discovered, the culprit is simply disqualified from the result. That has happened a few times for technical infringements. I have no recollection of a race being annulled because a team was found cheating.
I hear you ... that's why my comments were predicated upon the phrase "IF Bernie is correct ..." Bernie says there was a statute, demanding that all points from Singapore 2008 be erased. For a court to rule in Massa's favor, i'm sure some written evidence of this statute will need to be discovered (i would hope that no attorney would even take the case unless there were written evidence of such a statute ... but my opinion of the profession seems to always find new lows).
Please. Comparing Singapore 2008 to Abu Dhabi 2021 is just silly. Not ONE thing is similar in the 2 races...not one. One was outright cheating and one was the race steward making the wrong call on the last lap (which the FIA admitted). Those are the facts.
You are right. On the other hand, there is a substantial difference, the wrong call made by Masi (I would not simply call it a "wrong call", it was a clear breach of the rules), deliberate or not, clearly decided the title. Nobody can dispute it. What is to be understood is if the call was deliberate (which personally I think it was). Without Masi's mistake, Lewis would have another title in the bag. In the case of Singapore 2008, the "outright cheat" influenced but did not determine the final result of World Championship. There were 3 races after Singapore. If you read the interview with Lewis prior to Japan, he clearly stated that being in the lead he would race more conservatively. For this simple reason, Felipe has zero chances of success in any jurisdiction in the world. Maybe he can get the Championship cancelled, or some compensation (both extremely unlikely and the second one would probably have to be out of court), but he won't get the title.
Yep, I shouldn't label Masi's decision as "the wrong call"... It was Masi making up a rule and ignoring the rule he was supposed to enforce. Maybe he (Masi) thought he was doing a NASCAR race and that the "lucky dog" was in place...
Nothing new to expect before mid-Novemlber at least... Rgds https://www.planetf1.com/news/felipe-massa-2008-legal-challenge-13-10 [...] Massa’s legal team told PlanetF1.com that a request from the FIA & FOM to delay proceedings has been agreed to. “FIA and FOM are completing an internal investigation,” Bernardo Viana said. “They have requested one last extension to the deadline they initially asked for, from October 12th to November 15th. “We have agreed to this final period because, if the new administration is indeed looking into the matter in good faith, they will certainly reach the same conclusion we and so many people around the world have. “We would like to know what Formula 1’s new leadership’s position is on the recently disclosed scandal and the injustice faced by Felipe Massa.” [...]
It’s interesting to me between this and 2007 SpyGate which Alonso was involved with both, is free and clear. Briatore is banned, Renault was suspended, Mclaren was fined $120 million, stripped of the championship and Piquet Jr reputation is tarnished. It’s amazing Alonso did not get penalized for anything.
FIA leader just needs to stop talking. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/massa-surprised-by-ben-sulayem-claims-over-2008-f1-title-legal-challenge/10539145/ Massa surprised by Ben Sulayem claims over 2008 F1 title legal challenge Felipe Massa says he is “surprised” by claims FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem made about his potential legal challenge over the 2008 Formula 1 championship outcome. Author Jonathan Noble / Co-author Carlos Costa The Brazilian driver has begun a legal process to evaluate overturning the result of the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix, which was won by Fernando Alonso after his Renault team-mate Nelson Piquet Jr. deliberately crashed. Massa lost valuable ground in the title chase to main rival Lewis Hamilton that day, after suffering a problem at a refuelling stop, and if the event is declared null and void, he would become champion. As both FOM and the FIA work on filing legal responses over the matter, Ben Sulayem said recently that he had discussed the matter with Massa to indicate that motor racing’s governing body would defend its corner. Speaking to Reuters, Ben Sulayem said: "I answered him saying 'It's up to you, you do what you think is right for you, but the FIA will have to protect themselves. "We have our rules, we have our sporting rules, and our statutes, which say a certain period after that you can't [do anything]... but people can challenge that. It's not the book of God." But Massa has questioned that version of events, as he insists that he has never talked to Ben Sulayem about the matter and got no response when he messaged to say he was open for discussions. Asked for his thoughts on Ben Sulayem’s claims, Massa told Autosport: “I was a little surprised, because we didn't have this conversation with him. We never talked about the case. “In the end, I didn't have a conversation with him. I sent a message explaining the case and saying that I was available for us to talk, but he never responded to me. We never had that conversation.
Massa reveals Brazilian Grand Prix snub amid F1 dispute Massa reveals Brazilian Grand Prix snub amid F1 dispute (3h ago from GPFans.com Former Formula 1 driver Felipe Massa has revealed that he hasn't been invited by F1 to his home race in Brazil this weekend, after his legal team started proceedings against F1 officials and the FIA. They allege that a 'conspiracy' denied him the 2008 world championship, after comments made by ex-F1 chief Bernie Ecclestone about the notorious crashgate incident. After Massa revealed earlier this season that he had been told that he couldn't attend the Italian Grand Prix, the former Ferrari man had been hoping to make it to Brazil this weekend for his home grand prix. Massa's lawyers have made the call for Lewis Hamilton - who ended up winning the 2008 world championship and is well-loved in Brazil - to help them with their case, and it will be interesting to see the kind of reception the seven-time world champion may receive from the fans.
Good to see this! Jean Todt indicates support for Felipe Massa Massa, who had been leading the race in Singapore, ended up losing out to title rival Lewis Hamilton as a result of a dodgy pitstop when he drove off with his fuel hose still attached – a stop that wouldn’t have happened without Renault’s interference. The Brazilian would go on to lose the title in heartbreaking circumstances at the season finale at his home race at Interlagos, but his interest was piqued when former F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone let slip early this year that the FIA and F1 had had knowledge of Renault’s manipulation before the end of 2008 – and not in 2009, as was believed for the past 14 years. The resetting of the timeline has opened up a huge can of worms, with Massa opting to challenge for the title in court by arguing the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix should have been cancelled outright, rather than allowing the result to stand. If Singapore 2008 is scrubbed from the record books, Massa would claim the title. Jean Todt, who handed over the reins of Ferrari to Stefano Domenicali during that season after a long tenure as team boss, was still part of the board at the Scuderia at the time. After a long stint as FIA President, which ended in 2021 as Mohammed Ben Sulayem succeeded him, the Frenchman has remained tight-lipped on the situation until now. In an interview with Italy’s La Stampa, Todt revealed he now feels the Singapore race should have been cancelled – Todt having only just taken up the presidency at the FIA at the time when the controversy emerged. “I don’t get into the controversy,” Todt said. “For him [Massa], psychologically, it was very hard. “Maybe we [the FIA] could have been tougher when the story came out. “There is no doubt that the Singapore Grand Prix was rigged and should have been cancelled.”
Wanker lol?? No thats Bernie for running his big fat tax dodging criminal mouth. Too easy. This all his doing. He and Horner - Horny fingers should get a room. Jean Todt feels this is valid. He is more than a credible reference. “There is no doubt that the Singapore Grand Prix was rigged and should have been cancelled.”
long list of F1 related wankers Todt is a bit of an impartial observer, no? this is just sour grapes by Massa. he had a shot at a title, didn't get it done, is now (16 years later!) trying to blame someone else.
Bernie opened this and is on record in an interview. He is an old idiot. This is a Bernie problem. Massa has every right to pursue this given the position Bernie took in public in an interview. Whats wrong with another Ferrari title. Not one thing. Todt feels the race should have been cancelled. We have no idea what was provided by the FIA to Massa Legal team. They are moving forward it appears!
