Andretti Global F1 team

What info do you have that informs your belief that MBS is playing hardball? What authority is apparent that MBS can get Andretti on the grid without FOM approval?
Curious.

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Hardball is my speculation from watching MBS actions/public statement. I perceive that he does not accept that the FIA is supposed to roll over for whatever FOM wants to do.

Recent, yesterday?, published reports are saying that these were exactly the comments by MBS. Andretti can be on the grid even if FOM rejects them but they would not be part of the distribution of prize money. To me, this is part of MBS playing hardball with FOM and the teams showing how the FIA does have a role in all this that cannot be denied. Is MBS just using this as a threat so FOM relents?

 

That would be a bombshell in F1 ! But it could be the solution.
How Andretti would survive in F1 without receiving the redistribution money is a mystery.
Outside of the FOM umbrella, they would have to afford all their logistic costs for example?

 

Not often is this discussed in detail around this Andretti issue. The finance end of things are touchy and I dont see how another team currently adds anything at all. Not when they might be powered by Renault if at all. The teams pretty clearly see this as buying in on the hype, at the top when, factually not all teams are that soundly funded. Its a risk. Given what the smaller teams survived during the initital COVID times - why should he be welcome just now. MBS needs his head examined. Try getting the FOM/Teams on record of support FIRST!

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/38678799/why-f1-resisting-andretti-11th-team-bid


In F1 terms, the COVID-19 pandemic seems like a lifetime ago given the boom period which followed it, but several teams were on their knees during the first months of lockdown. The scars are still clearly there. The financial health of the grid -- and fears of at least one going out of business -- was a driving factor behind F1's push to return to racing in July 2020, the earliest any international competition resumed as normal again.

"All the teams on the grid, they made a big effort," Vasseur said in Qatar two weeks ago. "We have to keep in mind that three to four years ago, we had almost half the grid quite close to bankruptcy. We have to avoid to be arrogant."

The existing 10 teams feel that they rode it out in F1 when things were bleak and have helped turn it around into the entity it is today. That viewpoint was articulated well by Haas boss Guenther Steiner.

"I'd like to go back to 2020, I remember sitting in these video meetings when the pandemic hit and four teams were 'are we here next year or not'," Steiner said. "We were all struggling, trying to keep alive, and a lot of people and a lot of team owners have put their money in it to stay alive and to make F1 what it is now."

He added: "Why would we dilute what we've got just to get somebody else a team when F1 is booming? Because who knows what [it will be like] in three, four years. And I go back, it's only 2020 when we were struggling to stay alive as F1. The 10 teams that are here got through the hard times."

Williams boss James Vowles also gave a detailed explanation behind his team's opposition to Andretti, suggesting teams are still not thriving despite the current health F1 is in generally.

"It should be known it is not just us that are not financially stable," Vowles said. "I'd say probably half the grid aren't.

"I'd say the addition of an eleventh team is a sensible thing but only at the point where the tenth team on the grid is financially stable".

 

Please summarize....don't have 24 minutes....

 

Now its a party. Interesting timing of this announcement with Vegas in 3 days starting.

General Motors registers to join F1 as engine manufacturer from 2028
General Motors has formally registered with the FIA to join Formula 1 as a power unit manufacturer from the 2028 season.

 

Is that conditional to Andretti being accepted by FOM/Liberty, or Cadillac intends to become engine supplier to any team ?

 

Maybe they’re breaking from Andretti, becoming strictly a motor supplier.

 

They are going to be at least 4 years behind everyone else with regards to engine horsepower and engine reliability. They're here in F1 only for Andretti. Wish them lots of luck and patience.

 

Oh left this part out. Very sorry! -- https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/general-motors-registers-to-join-f1-as-engine-manufacturer-from-2028/10546407/

Via its Cadillac sub-brand, automotive conglomerate GM is already eyeing an F1 presence in the shorter term by partnering with the Andretti bid to form an 11th team.

Andretti has gained FIA approval to enter but is now awaiting a decision from FOM, which faces extreme resistance from the 10 incumbent teams who fear losing a chunk of their commercial income and any destabilising effect a new entry might have.

Andretti and GM chiefs are expected to attend this weekend’s inaugural Las Vegas Grand Prix to lobby FOM for approval, with the new team targeting an arrival for as early as 2025.

While that would require Andretti to agree an engine supply deal, most likely with Alpine, further down the line GM could build its own F1 power train having now formally registered as a supplier for the 2028 season.

GM president Mark Reuss said: “We are thrilled that our new Andretti Cadillac F1 entry will be powered by a GM power unit.

“With our deep engineering and racing expertise, we’re confident we’ll develop a successful power unit for the series, and position Andretti Cadillac as a true works team.

 

OK, that clarifies things. Cadillac will be Andretti's exclusive power unit supplier.

 

Until Ford leaves LOL!

 

It doesn't look like Ford will be deeply involved in F1. They may part-sponsor Red Bull, and provide some technical assistance on the electric side, I read. But the power units will be conceived and built by Red Bull Powertrain in their own premises. So far, Ford has just their logo on the RBPT building !

 

2028 is a long long way off. This must be taken with an eye to considerable research by FIA and F1-Liberty. A change at leadership in GM/Cadillac and this dies rather quickly, given how cost-sensitive auto-makers can be.

 

Color me skeptical but I don't see GM sticking around long if they have a few seasons like Haas. I don't trust their management to stick it out.

Give Honda credit. They really screwed up, were completely embarrassed, and just kept pushing until they were successful -- then walked away after saying "been there, done that".

GM management is going to ask what the reason for the spending is every quarter. If they can't justify it -- gone.

 

I would view virtually every engine supplier except Ferrari has a potential to walk away for any number of reasons. Change of the corporate top leadership, change of the corporation's financial condition, lack of results, enough results to prove their superiority/marketing objective (see Mercedes several times in the past). Currently I would not rate Alpine/Renault as secure for the future. Rumors of second thoughts by Audi are swirling.

Will GM have actual staying power? Who knows.

By GM saying this does it make it harder for FOM to say no to Andretti? That I think is the real objective. Next step is to say that they would be willing to supply a second team with engines if that situation were to come up.

 

HAAS?....."keeping it in the family" let's say?

 

Having Andretti in the F1 would be interesting but it is still not clear when we are going to see them in the F1. If everything goes well, it will be in 2025 but it doesn't look very likely at the moment.

 

This is the Japanese business model

This less so.

 

Honda has been in and out of F1 since 1965.
They were sometimes constructors, then only engine suppliers, and they withdrew completely a few times as well.
It all depend of the economic situation, but not always. Honda uses F1 to learn new technologies and train their engineers.
When the hydrid formula was offered, they jumped in.
It was a disaster at first, but they persevered until they became successful.

 

If they are accepted, I don't expect them to be on the grid before 2026.
For a new team, it would be silly to go to the effort of building a car for just one season.
Better to spend more time to design the car for the new formula.

 

GM has a long history with Ilmore for Indy engines, so can't see GM having the technical ability to build an F1 motor. But on the flip side, could Binotto be involved? Then it might be possible.

 

Given how many times US makers are bailed out with taxpayer money I have zero faith in 5 years, a virtual eternity for an automaker to commit to being on the grid. Just one leadership change and its cancelled. Separately if Andretti is approved he can and will use a Non GM PU. Nothing has really changed for the teams, the 11th team will take away money from them. GM's inclusion of possibly making an engine doesnt not change that in the short term.

More food fights to follow between the Dictator of the FIA ,and FOM /Teams as they assess this lol.

 

Which one ?
I know what the FIA rules say on the subject, but can they force Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari or Red Bull to supply Andretti ?
They oppose Andretti entry in F1, and then they would have to sell them engines?
That I would like to see !!!