430 Ah the fun of a convertible..

He did do the manual closing procedure to get the top up and locked. I'm not sure about the scanner part. I don't think the launch does that does it? I do have one of those. He tested all the microswitches (all 1,362,437 of them) and said they all checked good. I don't know about the pump motor, I need some free time to do the voltage tests you recommended earlier as well as the rest. The ECU if I am correct is behind the driver's seat. I haven't even had time to do the battery disconnect yet.

I'll start with step 1 and go from there. I will definitely report back as I go along and I GREATLY appreciate all the inputs I can get!

 

Yes try the simple disconnect first

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

Just curious, were you able to ever figure this out?

 

So far no luck. We have another terrific independent mech here in Jax that is good with tops too, but he's been backed up for 3 months now. Still waiting. Last time I talked to him last week he had a dead ferrari and a dead rolls in his bays hogging up inside space. Which sucks when you have a top issue, you need the car inside.

The fuses are good, but when looking at the owners manual, the fuses for the soft top PSF17 and PSF18 should be 45A and 30A respectively. I look at my fuses and they are 7.5A and 15A??? Ummmm wtf?

The motor does NOT run with switch activation although the windows do roll down or up in sequence as they should. Top is still in the up and locked position. I am not very good with electrical but I will attempt to check the voltage at the pins as Ian suggested IF I can identify them....

 

The simple disconnect didnt work and I DON'T have the key for the radio, so now I just created more problems for myself. About standard really. How can I get my radio code?

 

Ian,
Where am I connecting the leads from my voltmeter. I am currently putting the hot lead (red) in the pin, but am unsure of where to put the ground lead (black) Mechanical is my wheelhouse, electrical is not my forte, so any help is greatly appreciated. I don't want to fry anything.

 

Not sure what's going on here, either. The WSM also shows 45A and 30A. I don't have any wiring diagrams for the F430 Spider. It seems unusual to have such a high amperage for a small type fuse. Anyway, the fuse for the roof pump motor is actually a maxi fuse (PSF30)

Image Unavailable, Please Login

I'm not sure if the left or right side of the fuse is the hot side (live battery side). Just put your red meter probe on one side and the black meter probe on the chassis somewhere (there should be earth studs somewhere on the firewall). Then check the other side of the fuse. If you have power on both sides of the fuse, the fuse is ok.

 

Thank you! I am trying to test pins 87 and 86 as you instructed too. 87 shows around 4-5V and 86 shows 0 even with the switch being pushed or pulled. It makes a sound for the windows but the top motor does nothing.

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I just realised your fuses don't have any cutouts in the back of them, making it impossible to check them in-situ. Maybe the maxifuse PSF30 has cutouts?

If not, just pull the fuse and check the resistance across the fuse. Should be zero ohms.

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I'm not sure why you would have 4~5 volts on 87. That is supposed to be full fuse power (12 volts). Maybe there are variations between the 360 and 430 (despite a similar electrical architecture).

Definitely something strange going on here. At least we know the switch is operating.

 

No cutouts on any fuses sadly

 

Would you be able to pull the PSF30 fuse and check which side of the fuseholder is live? (i.e. 12volts battery power). Red probe on left(?) fuseholder contact and black probe on chassis/earth stud. If no power, try the right contact.

My diagrams are based on the Scud wiring diagrams, but the graphics show 8 fuse slots, not 6.

 

PSF30 checks good. Looks brand new

 

I was watching a video on fuses recently and there was a huge difference in the quality of fuses. If you have to replace any, don't go cheap.

Once you have confirmed the fuse is ok with an ohmmeter, find out which is the live side of the fuseholder (voltmeter). Then you can do continuity (resistance) checks between the fuseholder (non-live side) to the pump relay holder.

To help you, I can draw some diagrams, but I need to confirm which is the live/hot side of the fuseholder.

 

Right side is the hot side. Getting a good 12V across all 3 fuses. The pin 86 for the ECU voltage is showing 0V. 87 is a good 12V. I'm a moron and had my voltmeter set on AC. Got it now. All fuses look and check good. 0 Ohms on the 7.5, 15, and 30A fuses (PSF17, PSF18, and PSF30)

 

Is this the right side when you are looking at the fuseblock? (i.e. looking towards the rear). Hopefully yes, as this means I don't have to make a lot of adjustments to my diagrams.

This may be ok, as you wouldn't expect voltage here unless the ECU was commanding the roof to move. Maybe we can look at this later.

Excellent.

I was thinking about jumping 87 and 30 (very briefly) to see if the pump runs, but I'd be worried that pump would be fighting locks and things. Can you test the relay (off the car)? Just put a small battery across pins 85 and 86 and see if the relay clicks. You could also monitor the resistance across pins 30 and 87 when you are doing this.

 

Yes it is the right side (looking towards the rear) of the fuse block that is the hot side.

I don't have a 12v battery to test the relay with, but when replacing the fuses after testing them, I hear a clicking when putting them back into the fuse blocks, in particular PSF17 (7.5A fuse) and PSF18 (15A fuse). Does it need 12v or could a lower voltage battery (ie a household 9v) work?

 

Thanks! That’s good news. I don’t have to redraw all my diagrams.

Yep, relays can be tested with a small 9v battery. I usually have one around the house in some gadget, like a smoke detector or multimeter.

 

The relay checks good.

 

I guess we are running out of simple things to do, although maybe you could check the voltage on relay socket #86 with the roof button pushed. The relay is ok, so if you get 12 volts on #86, it must be a motor pump/wiring failure. If you get no volts, it's a pump control issue. We know the roof switch signal is getting to the Roof ECU (as the Roof ECU has to send a signal to the Window ECU for window drop). I assume the Window ECU then tells the Roof ECU that the windows are down.

The sequence for opening is here:

Image Unavailable, Please Login

Step 1) Let's assume all of these things in step 1 is ok (engine lid closed, etc)
Step 2) Ditto (because the windows work)
Step 3) Maybe this is where things are starting to go wrong. Maybe no flap operation is leading to no hydraulic motor operation?
Step 4) I think I wrongly assumed that the motor would run whenever the roof switch was operated because of the "Both signals are present during the whole operation" statement. Maybe they mean the whole operation from the point where the (electrically powered) flaps have opened?

When you said that all the microswitches had been checked, does this mean your tech manually operated the roof and checked the switches in all their different states? Or was he just relying on the Roof ECU to produce a switch fault code?

 

I'm getting no voltage on pin 86 when I actuate the switch, but I'll check again just to be sure.

For the microswitches, I am not sure exactly what he did, but he is THE guy for Ferrari's in my area, an old italian man who does phenomenal work. Honestly, I bet he could fix it, but he doesnt like working on the tops. He said he checked the mircoswitches and has checked them before for me when I had a separate issue.

The capote flaps are definitely open, I can see that when looking up at the guts of the top motor/ECU with the B pillar removed on the passenger side (left hand drive car). But I see what you are saying if the switches for the capote flaps aren't working, aka not telling the system what position they are in, then maybe they wouldn't allow for a signal to be sent to the pump motor?

When I picked up the car from him, he said he suspected the ECU, I hope its not that, but we're heading to that point. I thought the ECU was a computer, but in doing a little research it appears that the ECU is the motor/reservior/whole enchilada behind the passenger B pillar.

 

Ah, thanks. I didn't realise they were opening.

Was this after the flaps had reached the open position?

Yes, I guess a flap open switch might stop the next stage of operation (assuming the pump doesn't run all of the time). Yes, it may be an ECU, but you'd want to check everything before going down that route. Maybe you could check the microswitch continuity (from the ECU connector if the switch is not readily accessible).

Where did you see that the ECU included the whole enchilada? It's just a box of electronics behind the driver.

Image Unavailable, Please Login

Used prices don't look too bad:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124536767769

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login

If you want to check the flap open microswitch, do a continuity (resistance) check between pin 8 of the Roof ECU top plug (2Q) and the chassis (ground). Pin 3 of the middle plug (3Q) can be used as a ground if you can't find if you can't find any bare pieces of metal near the ECU.

(EDIT) I mean do the resistance checks on the wiring harness plugs (not the ECU itself). I think the graphic above shows the plugs as viewed from the wire side, so you'll have to mentally reverse the image when putting the ohmmeter on the contacts. Pin 8 will be on the left of the plug when looking at the sockets.

 

Well the flaps are not "opening" they are already open with the top in the up position. When the switch is actuated, NOTHING happens with the top at all. Only the windows roll down like the cycle is beginning.

A quick google search made me think the motor, reservoir, etc was all the ECU. Glad to hear the ECU is actually a computer box.