Another “mispriced” TdF from Tom Hartley for £875,000 https://www.tomhartleyjnr.com/car/stock/2015/ferrari/f12tdf/ferrari-f12tdf-3/
That car is imported car - supplied in Hong Kong which no UK collector would buy. In the UK market the price difference between a UK supplied car and an imported car is big -as is impact on desirability So now THJ is asking exactly the same price for this car - which has 1000 miles, a spec not for everyone and imported ( HOng Kong supplied) that he was asking for a delivery mileage, UK supplied, nice and clean spec car in blue tour de france. The spread valuation-wise between these two cars is easily £75k if not £100k in the UK market. Therefore if he thinks this car is £875k the blue he just sold shoukd have been at an asking price around £950-975k - which is close to what the owner was asking for it through an official dealer £990k) before desperately selling it at a Christmas discount to THJ. Conclusion : - this grey car is probably priced fairly in the UK market based on the spec/mileage and provenance( although looks slightly cheap on paper) - the blue he sold was definitely too cheap - the fact he asks the same money for this car is an obvious evidence and admission that he grossly undervalued the blue car ( and hence why it sold instantly)
Perhaps another comparison that would be easier for you to quantify : Imagine a choice between 2 cars for sale in the United States : one in tdf blue, del mileage and US spec ( US supplied) against another car in that grey spec and finish with 1000 miles also left hand drive but supplied in Dubai and imported into the USA . How much difference in price do you think there should be? And how easy or likely do you think it’ll sell in the US market?
Sometimes it is the OWNER that desperately and quickly wants to get out of a car (not a dealer, that just jumps at the chance and has plenty of fast cash available). I personally know several owners that seem to be under financial pressure and are trying to raise cash asap. Marcel Massini
Absolutely - thank you Marcel. This is exactly what I’ve been trying to explain about that blue UK supplied car sold too cheap byvTHJ. The owner sold it too cheap to the dealer who in turn was able to advertise it too cheap to make a quick sale., Although in the case of that grey car provenance ( ie being an imported car) has a material impact on desirability and valuation as everywhere else in the world. That makes that car priced more realistically compared to the abnormally undervalued blue car recently sold.
Sometimes it really is a fire sale. It is always important to know and comprehend the background of an ownership change. Marcel Massini
Results from yesterday’s RM auction at Vegas: An 812 Comp sold for $1.765m + premium + tax - and that’s not the best spec + the car had been at a dealer previously… 918 spyder and CGT both sold around $1.6m + premium + tax A few other rare porsche also sold for top money. these are pretty strong results
I love how you guys are talking up the prices. UK market and US/EU markets have totally different price points no matter what the origin or provenance of the car. Keep posting - it's fun to watch....
Those figures above are public you can verify them. This was in response to another member who recently said ( perhaps it was you) that prices were going down across the world those results show they are not. As to provenance it is a big factor on price I’m not sure how familiar you are with the collector car market… A HK supplied car in the UK doesn’t sell for the price of a UK car. Similarly a Dubai car won’t sell for the price of a US car in the US. That’s the provenance aspect. History is another. Finally as Marcel explained the circumstances of a sale are a third aspect. None of that has anything to do with talking up prices but rather how this market works. You can sit there and debate whether or not that makes but that’s another topic of discussion.
Yes it was me and to quote my original thread "Seems in the UK market at least, prices are down across the board for nearly everything and F12 TDFs are no exception". Perhaps you should read a post more carefully next time...
You have 2 carrera GT in the UK for sale around £1.6m , in line if not higher than the auction results and 10% or more higher than they were 6 months ago. You have 2 LaFerrari for sale at £3.3m and £3.5m respectively in line with US/EU prices and 10% higher than they were 6 months ago. A Ferrari dealer ( official dealer) just advertised a tailor made tdf with 1600 miles ( UK supplied) at £1.125M You have a del mileage McLaren P1 at £1.6 or £1.7m for sale, probably higher than US/UK prices and 15/20% higher than they were a year ago. pay attention to all cars for sale. The top end and the very special cars / the right cars have gone up not down. I disagree with you
Yes we can’t agree on everything…. i forgot to mention above a few 458’Speciale Aperta that sold for near £750k in the last 2 months. A record high in the last few years.
https://www.autoscout24.it/annunci/ferrari-f12-tdf-netto-price-benzina-giallo-ca05f09e-1712-45f6-ad54-b9218938111c A tdf in giallo triplo strato with an average spec and nearly 5000 miles for sale at 1.35m euros netto. That means after tax / VAT in Europe this is a price of 1.62m euros ( £1.4m )…
https://www.autolina.ch/auto/ferrari-f12-1/3994550 1.4m chf (£1.27m for a plain rosso corsa car with 10,000 km.
To be sold NO RESERVE at Barrett-Jackson auction in January 2024: https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/2017-FERRARI-F12-TDF-271879
I participated in the RM auction but on other F models but paid attention to all the bids on the 812 Comp and the CGT. (I just sold my CGT. I am now happily back to an all F garage w/the exception of two utility transport vehicles.) I believe the $1.765 for the 812 Comp included the premium, but not tax. Same is true for the CGT with all-in but pre-tax at $1.55 if I remember correctly. The CGT market does not have strong bidding depth. On both this auction as well as in private sales, my limited 10-20 car listing data presently shows median of $1.3 wholesale, $1.4 retail. There are not a lot of CGT deals getting done also. It's current listing prices in the US above >$1.7 are ...inspirational. One can really see the bidding depth and deals on the Ferrari side showing how sustainable and important the Ferrari hypercar/halo car brand is relative to Porsches halo cars. Interestingly, the CGT price seems to be correlated with the F40 price. I didn't watch the 918 spyder brand.
Greg, I’m curious why you sold the CGT? I’m on my second and could never let it go… Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I liked it but didn't love it. Part of my reasons were logistical. Getting that car out of storage subjected it to multiple speed bumps that it would barely scrape. The industrial park just has road wide, and tall speedbumps. I couldn't store the car at home as my insurer wouldn't insure as I am technically in a high-risk fire zone at home. Also, wavy bumps in the road where I live. I travel very close and over the San Andreas fault every day. That leads to new road dips due to the creeping fault zone. So bottoming out would be a frustrating surprise. I didn't want to put a lift system in and modify the car. In terms of driving, I preferred driving my TdF over it. When I was in the mode of 'exciting' driving, my first thought would almost always be TdF. I also have a valve controller on the TdF, so the sound is even more fantastic. As a result, the in-cabin sound from the TdF bettered the in-cabin on the CGT with the tops on (just IMO!) Also, I didn't like the routine of putting and taking off the targa tops of the CGT each time. Also, the stick of the CGT was fun for just awhile. Then over time, it didn't matter as much. With the TdF, I need paddles. Too much of my brain is focused on the front axle and thinking about shifting a stick wouldn't work for me. And I realized that fact was ok with me. So I felt those issues in the first couple of weeks but chalked it up for not knowing the car. Then I realized it was my reaction to the car. Some people like chocolate, some vanilla. So relative to the Tdf, all of these issues created enough friction when added together. I just wasn't picking the CGT and it was sitting there.
Absolutely. Dealers will make good money up or down. What they like is good volume, even better a client who needs to move an expensive beast fast. Especially if the client was encouraged to buy now high depreciating models using finance with new cars arriving. Ferrari has also done a very good job moving a significant chunk of resale profit for the original buyer - with models such as the F12tdf and 458SA - into the retail price today of the latest equivalent models. Not to mention more limited models and higher volume numbers. Can't blame them, business is business. For the end user the game is much more finely tuned.
Agreed. Although Ferrari is also doing a very good job in pushing secondary prices of limited editions way higher than previous models. That helps push value for previous models higher and make them more desirable especially if those models are more special and rarer. Take an 812C, they made 999 of the coupe + 599 of the aperta, the coupe in the UK resells for anywhere between £1.2 to £1.5m depending on spec, the Aperta, one owner was just offered £2m for his car ( this is information from an official dealer) - compare those figures to the Tdf which is a rarer car and which every dealer both official and not would agree is a better, more beautiful, more timeless and more special car despite a current resale price between £850k and £1.1m depending on spec and mileage for the tdf. bottomline Ferrari are doing a great job at ringfencing the 812C or any other new limited edition to maintain a high value eventually that will be beneficial to owners of previous rarer and more special limited editions so everyone should and will win in the end
Interesting, let's hope you're right. What I'm not sure about based on your robust numbers, is how does that affect Icona resale prices? Or are those quotes the bump one always gets with brand new LEs? The SP1 sold at auction was from memory not much more than the GBP price you quote for a brand new 812CompA. Either way, will be fascinating tracking the relative movements.
