Ferrari Sport Cars Thread | Page 32 | FerrariChat

Ferrari Sport Cars Thread

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Aardy, Feb 12, 2023.

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  1. 166MM alum

    166MM alum Karting

    Jul 24, 2018
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    Darrell Westfaul
    Yes, that is what the quote from barchetta.cc implies.
     
  2. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
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    Two different cars.
     
  3. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Why #20 at Casablanca would not be an ex-625 TF fitted with a tipo 500 engine from a monoposto ?
    By the way, we didn’t find what happened to the Ascari’s spyder #14 after the crash at Monza in April 1953...
     
  4. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Could you explain ?
     
  5. detective

    detective Karting

    Dec 28, 2010
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    Brian J Ormerod
    Does every one agree that this car is the only car to have the arrangement of bonnet (hood) clips shown - two on the front lower edge and one either side slightly more than half way back towards the driver. If we do then we can at least follow it's future even if we can't agree on it's past.
     
  6. 166MM alum

    166MM alum Karting

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    Darrell Westfaul
    Photo please?
     
  7. detective

    detective Karting

    Dec 28, 2010
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    Brian J Ormerod
    I don't have a better photo at Casablanca but they can be seen in the shot posted above. This is the clearest picture I have, here in 1954 with a re-styled nose. The catches can be seen right through the car's development upto 1959......IF IF this is the only car with the same pattern of clips. Image Unavailable, Please Login
    No details on the photo copyright.
     
  8. detective

    detective Karting

    Dec 28, 2010
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    Brian J Ormerod
    The final picture I have, this time in 1959. Full width windscreen and some other mods but still the same 4 catches and same side louvres in the wings (fenders). Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    Are you saying this is the same car as the #20 Casablanca car?

    Marcel Massini
     
  10. 166MM alum

    166MM alum Karting

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    Darrell Westfaul
    Getting ahead of the calendar, but Picard raced (presumably) the same 500 Mondial on February 28, 1954, at Agadir. Here it is in this photo: Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    May be we need to start the story at the beginning ?
    Back in April 1953. We know we have at least three cars s/n 0302TF, 0304TF and 0306TF supposedly born with 4 cylinders.
    Regarding 4 cyl engines, we have :
    - tipo 625 with 2.498,32 cc (624,58 cc per cylinder), around 220 ch,
    - tipo 735, with 2.941,66 cc (735,41 cc per cylinder), around 225 ch,
    - tipo 500 Mondial, with 1.984,86 cc (496,21 cc per cylinder), around 170 ch,
    Now, welcome to the brainstorming if you try to understand which bodies were fitted on the three chassis and with which engines ! :confused::D
     
  12. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Older pic dated from 5 April 1953.
    Caption says :
    « The 1953 Ferrari 625 TF s/n 0302TF in Modena 1953. According to the source, this is in April 1953, at the Customer Dept in Viale Trento Trieste, downtown Modena (assistenza clienti). According to a Ferrari history website, his particular car (0302TF) was first sold to Cornacchia, a Ferrari dealer in Milano. After few months it was destroyed in a fire, but possibly rebuilt into something else soon thereafter. »

    https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1953-04-05_Modena_Ferrari_625_0302TF.jpg
     
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  13. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    #788 Aardy, Dec 23, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2023
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  14. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Another pic dated from 28 April 1953.
    The spyder that will be crashed by Ascari on 29 June 1953 at Gran Premio dell’Autodromo in Monza.
     
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  15. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    At this point, impossible to say exactly if 0302TF was originally a Vignale coupe or the « Ascari spyder ».

    Now first very important question : do we have one or two Vignale coupes ?
    The first one (5 April 1953) had a profiled nose.
    The second (28 April 1953) had a larger nose.
    May be they redone the nose at the factory for a better cooling or after a crash but how to be sure ? And if there was only one car, where is the third car on 28 April 1953 ?
    Anyway, we can’t rule out the possibility there were two cars...
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    First Vignale coupe with profiled nose.

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    Second Vignale coupe with larger nose (same car or not ?)
     
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  16. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Another interesting pic from 28 April 1953.
    Villoresi testing the « Ascari spyder » at Modena Autodromo during the photo session with 0280AM...
    At this point, still impossible to say if this car was 0302TF, 0306TF or even 0304TF as we know these three cars were renumbered together during the 1953 season...
     
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  17. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Now pics of the « Ascari spyder » at the Gran Premio dell’Autodromo in Monza on 29 June 1953.
    We know the car was crashed by Ascari during the race.
    At this point, still no evidence this car was 0302TF, 0306TF or even 0304TF.
    And very important question : what happened to the car after the crash ?
     
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  18. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Now third (?) car : the Vignale spyder raced by Hawthorn at the Gran Premio dell’Autodromo in Monza on 29 June 1953.
    All sources give 0304TF for this one but how to be 100 % sure ?
     
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  19. Aardy

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    #794 Aardy, Dec 23, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2023
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    A funny thing ! :D Did I you notice how much the nose of the Vignale coupe with the larger nose is close to the « Hawthorn spyder #16’s one at Monza ?
     
  20. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    But things are getting more complicated now ! :confused:
    A Vignale spyder was seen at Gran Premio dell’Autodromo in Monza on 29 June 1953 during practise with Farina at wheel.
    Which one it was ? 0302TF ? 0304TF ? 0306TF ? How to be sure ?
     
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  21. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    And did you notice how much the « Farina spyder » at Monza is close to the first Vignale coupe with proflled nose ?
    Is it the same car converted to spyder ?
    Is it the proof there were two Vignale coupes ? One with profiled nose converted to spyder ? The second with larger nose ?
     
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  22. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    Now the fate of these cars after the Gran Premio dell’Autodromo at Monza in June 1953.
    One was still raced by the factory during 1953 (#90 at Coppa d’Oro delle Dolomiti on 12 July 1953) and then sold at the end of the year to Luis Milan and raced in Argentina from 1954.
    We can presume it was the « Hawthorn spyder » #16 at Monza although the nose has changed since Monza...
     
  23. Aardy

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    Another one was still raced by the factory during 1953 (#3 during practise at 1000 km of Nürburgring on 30 August 1953 : DNS) and then sold at the end of the year to Roberto Bonomi who raced it in Argentina in 1954 before bringing back the car in Italy.
    We can presume it was the « Farina spyder » during practise at Monza in June 1953.
     
  24. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    We were able to identify at least two cars but the fate of the third one remains uncertain. What happened to the « Ascari spyder » after the crash at Monza in June 1953 ?
    Most probably rebodied but why there are no pics of a third factory car during the 1953 season ?
     
  25. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Veteran
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    And now again the #20 spyder at Casablanca 12 Hours on 20 December 1953.
    As we eliminated two cars (Milan and Bonomi’s Vignale spyders), we can presume this third one is the ex « Ascari spyder » #14 crashed at Monza.
    But did you notice how much the #20 spyder looks like too to a Vignale spyder although some sources say it was the first Scaglietti spyder ?
    And still the same question : why are there no pics of this car between Monza in June 1953 and Casablanca in December 1953 ?
     

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