Market Prices 575 Manual vs 575 F1 (conversion costs) vs 550?

Thats not a bad trade, haha!!

I’m not immune to the old 911 charm, but I had a 993 before they were cool and really enjoyed every ounce of the car, so I guess I gave that going for me

 

I had 4 of them including a Jerry Woods built slant nose targa. They were fun back in the day, but now, wouldn’t even consider it.

 

Brad- I do not really care about values that much. Just keeping the facts straight. At least one FChatter who owned both a 3 pedal 575M and a 550, much preferred the 575. Plus generalizations on 575Ms do not take into account the wide variances while production was underway.

 

I drove 20,000 miles in my 1998 550. I just drove a 2005 SuperAmerica over 1,000 miles. Memory is not what it used to be. I sold the 550 in 2008. But the SA seems to ride a lot better, but not as sloppy as a MB SL. At the same time, it did great on some North Carolina 180 degrees twisties. Once upon a time, a SA was considered to be a big car. No longer. F12 and 812 are much bigger cars. I even had fun with the F1. However, I took my foot off the brake too soon after a stop more than once. Old habits.

Damn you @SCantera. I'm having a hard time getting the car out of my mind, and I'm not a fan of droptops.

 

I hear you on not caring about values, but that is certainly one metric that speaks to a car's desirability. It is a fact and a data point. 550's are selling for on average 100K more than 575F1s. Converted 575s are selling almost at the 550 average and OE 6MT are selling for another big premium. This accounts for ALL BAT sales and BID to prices since 8/1/2023. The runts and the stars for both chassis. These are the facts!

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I agree wholeheartedly about the variance between cars. Luckily for me, I drove dozens of each model at Willow Springs Raceway and on the street (clients form the dealership who had the school as well as my own clients at my performance shop that specialized in BMW, MBZ and Ferrari).

The biggest variance was in alignment actually. I could take 3-5 430's out (all new within a few thousand miles old) and they would all handle very differently. It was shocking. Some people loved the car and some thought it sucked (until we got them to realign it! lol).

As I said, we all have opinions - NOT facts. Having spent a lot of time in both, the 550 has a different feel that we prefer. One is not objectively BETTER than another, especially because one other person out of 5000K owners of both cars liked it better. That is not a factual or compelling argument. I like it less, so I guess we even each other out! =)

Every one of us has different wants and expectations from a car - this car. Some lean more toward the effortless GT and some lean more towards the less refined sports GT. Its great that we have options!

I will continue to consider the 550 the last truly analog V12 FE 6MT. YMMV.

 

Caveat for now. Ask again in 5 years-10 years…

 

said Porsche people about the 930! =)

In 5-10 years I will wager the 550 will be worth significantly more than a 575F1. A manual will be even more of a rare beast and sought after by enthusiasts, investors and collectors.

Even the look of the Cluster between a 550 and 575 is a huge difference. The 550 gives the experience of a true vintage Ferrari and the 575 is akin to the modern look and feel of the brand now. Again, not better or worse. I know what I like and what emotions each stir in my soul. I am quite sure it differs for many of you.

The point is that these are some of the things that are driving the price gap - the overall emotional experience IMHO.

 

You missed the core message…. your value judgment is intrinsically subjective and reflective of current trends….this will change as the buyers evolve. Case in point, younger buyers care less for (and can’t often even drive) manuals. F1 will become a vintage quasi early digitalization experiment refectuve of an era. That and the usual price trend for v12 Ferraris means the prices will jump. Just because the greater now doesn’t mean that will stay the case …512TR are now worth more than boxers.

 

We will see, I don't agree with your core message though. I have a 19 year old, and he and all of his friends can drive manual and LUST after anything manual. They can all count the cars that are made in manual and sold new as easily as they take a breath of air. I am not sure in 5-10 years that "younger buyers who cannot drive or appreciate manuals" will really be in the place to invest in 300K+ 30 year old Ferrari's. I am not sure that time will ever come. I think that the non-manual cars will hit a ceiling and stop appreciating, or do so very very slowly. While cars that offer something different - something less digital and controlled, will sky rocket.

I mean, you can go buy a mustang or vette that will do EVERYTHING better than a 550 or 575 today with a warranty. This is not about performance, it is about emotion. Logic does not drive these buying decisions from what I have seen over the last 50+ years

I hate to be a broken record, but look at air cooled Porsche pricing. And there are 100's of thousands of those. Even 930's were not limited in production. And as has been said, they are NOT great cars, but they offer an experience that a modern sports or better car does not. AS time ticks, that experience will be harder and harder to find. This is what drives Singer and GuntheWerks as well. Those cars at a million bucks + are giving you rarity, but they are giving you an experience. There are better ways on paper to spend that money on a car, but they both sell EVERY car they make, and the resale is 1.5-2x acquistion cost typically.

It will be interesting and fun to see how this all plays out! Fun discussion.

 

Make all the 575s manual like the 550 and there would be no price gap. It’s like comparing apples and oranges with the target audience above 45 years old who clearly are buying the one with the manual transmission. There's nothing more to it than that.

And the true connoisseur doesn’t want the aftermarket molested conversion on the 575 side either. That’s what’s pushing buyers to the 550.

I actually prefer the 575 interior. Dash cluster and steering wheel. Feels higher quality to me.

 

^^ Yes exactly. The 575 definitely has higher build quality throughout both mechanically and in finishing. Subjectively I think the 550 is a more attractive design (externally).

Life is too short to worry what people want unless your buying the car for the next owner to enjoy. People have told my various cars are 'unfortunate' due to my mods...to which I always respond with a simple 'ok'. I feel they bring out the character of the car better (subjectively IMHO of course) and often have lots of time / sourcing / etc.

PS the next generation love electric and digital everything

 

But they aren’t all 6mt so it’s impossible to follow the rest. We cannot speculate on what isn’t the real fact patten.

Ferrari made 246 manuals out of the 2056 575s made. All 3083 550s are 6mt. Those 246 will always be worth a ton as they are Uber rare - more rare than an f50.

So the facts are we have to compare 1800 575f1 to 3083 550. So almost twice as many cars and they are selling for roughly 2x the price.

I don’t think it’s all due to 6mt, but I will agree that is a huge part of it, maybe nearly all of it. It’s all opinion by all of us, but the reality anyway you slice it is that the 550 is perceived as more valuable than any 575 other than an oe 6mt.

the data also suggests that the money to convert is well spent as it will increase the value by at least the cost of the work if not more. Both chassis in 6mt certainly give buyers two different options and that is great for the enthusiast!

at the current 575 prices, it would seem like a no brainer to buy and convert. More enjoyment and sound investment.

 

I think that is too subjective. Better on paper or better in real life? Both go over 200mph. Both are sexy. One has an older vibe and one a more modern vibe. I think that they don’t necessarily appeal to the same buyer at this point. For two cars that are so similar, imho, they really are vastly different. I just get a completely different emotion from each, even the 6mt 575. Just one data point. I would love to have a 6mt 575 - as an investment. But I would continue to drive the crap out of our 550. It has 30k and I have about 20k of that. My son and dad have the rest.

Yes, it’s true the 575 is faster on the top end, but I have had ours at 204mph (gps verified) and it didn’t really matter to me that I got there 10 seconds slower than I could have in a 575. A clk63 bs got to the same speed faster than both and I like the Ferraris better. I have had 4 cars (550, ruf, clk63bs and e60m5j over 200 on the same stretch of road and how long it took to get there was pretty meaningless to me. They all got there.

the 550 looks more timeless imho.

the 575 is built better (as Ferrari continued to modernize the factory).

both amazing cars from an earlier time. It seems to me that when Ferrari changed to the 575, it was a paradigm shift to a different philosophy. Again, this doesn’t make one better than the other and there is no negativity. There are just likes and opinions. I don’t like modern cars for anything other than daily drivers. Some feel the same and most likely feel different as all manufactures are pushing tech with each new chassis.

our 550 isn’t stock. None of our cars are. I owned a race/performance shop after all. But to me the only thing that could make it better are Fabio headers, and they will come one day.

I also prefer the 360 challenge to the 430 challenge and later ones. I also prefer the 360cs and 430 scud to later ones. I also prefer the 550/575 to the 599 and later. I also prefer the f40 to the f50. These are all cars I have a good amount of time in on track at the limits. What can I say, maybe I am a neanderthal stuck in time. Newer and faster isn’t always “better”. They are all fast enough.

 

Re: the interior - that was actually a big factor for me choosing the 575. I know some feel the 550 interior is prettier, but I prefer the latter car’s take.

And yes, OEM or bust for converting was certainly how I came to view it. I won’t say other people’s are substandard - I have no experience with them…but being a bit of a purist, I knew I may regret it if I didn't go that way.

 

Hey guys, on the 550, which is considered to be more rare of an option - carbon race seats or FHP? I just saw a post from a dealer claiming that there are less than 100 non WSR 550s equipped with the carbon race seats? Any idea on the number of FHP cars put out from factory?

Which in the future do you think will be more desirable? Thanks!

 

Both only on subset of late 550s but the 550 Carbon seats are much rarer.

 

Thanks for the reply. So I just bought a March build 97 550 that has the carbon seats, and questioned whether they were original or added later on. Ferrari dealer says they do show in Modis.

My understanding is that the CS personalization program was introduced late 97. Think the seats were available as an option beforehand then?

Btw Tubis I bought from you for sound great!

 

Thank you Brad for this post. It simply explains why the manual rage is happening.

After not being happy with my new 360 Spider [waited 3 years for it] I traded it plus $30k for a 330 GTC and a 550. I had never driven a 550 when I got it. I fell in love with the 550 immediately. Then got bitten with get the new version I traded it for an F1 575. Didn't like it one bit. So I traded it in on an 05 SuperAmerica. I love the SA. Great handling and my idea of a perfect GT. Driven it long distances more than once. TexasForever drove it for me from my home in NC to my go-to shop in Naples. There I am having the new Ricambi rear anti-roll bar and steering ECU installed. I have had this SA for 15 years now.

In late November the 812 I ordered 2 years ago was delivered. The idea was would sell the SA once the 812 came in. Life got in the way and I was struck in the summer with tough stroke. I have not driven any of the 10 cars in my collection since that happened. Once my recovery continues I look forward to driving them again. It makes me think to let the 812 go and have a manual conversion installed in the SA. I don't care about valuation issue. It just making one of my favorite cars even better. Brad make it clear...it's not about the speed of the shifting it's how it feels. I do have 3 pedal cars of the 10.....Ford GT, BB 512 and my fav the 330 GTC. Adding another in the SA probably doesn't make sense. Probably from a valuation view. But as I said I don't care about valuation. I am going to be 70 this August....

As an aside....wrong thread.....but the 812 seems huge to me. The SA seems perfect as a GT. Shifting it would be even better!

 

Hope you’re continuing to recover !

Can you explain why you liked the handling and feel of the SA but not the 575 F1 ?
Would it be the FHP on the SA ? F1 better in the SA ?
Thanks,
Skipp

 

SA benefited from all the development and updates to the 575 line over their years of production. Another words a 2005 HGTC car should drive similar with minor caveats. The SA did have the final iteration of the F1 system as well. Nearly all of this can be retrofit in a steering position sensor equipped 575.

FHP was optional on SA although I am unaware if anyone has been able to confirm what combination of springs/swaybars/etc cars would get if both HGTC and FHP.

 

As a “newbie” to the Ferrari world, I’m very impressed with the time and attention to current sales by FC members. The black/black car presents very well. Most appreciate Ferrari55whoa who has seen car and comments that the dealer is “forthcoming and very transparent”. A little surprising to me that there are more comments/discussion here on FC than on the BaT listing! Thanks to all on this thread.