Window rolling itself down

Not particularly. I live in Maryland. It is about 30 at night and 45-50 during the day.

 

Yes. On the armrest door handle with the lock switch. I removed the interior armrest and handle and found that the screw holding the lock microswitch was loose and the switch was wobbly. Tightening the screw up fixed the issue.

Unfortunately the window issue is back and the window switch lights staying on issue persists. I will pull the door card off tomorrow and look at the rest of the switches. But I am starting to think you are right about the window ECU. I found it today, but man it looks like a pain to pull out. I’ll start with the microwswitches and f that’s not it, move on to the window ECU.

 

How accessible are the ECU lower plugs (for switch wiring checks)? You don't need to pull the door card off if you can access the wiring at the door plug or Window ECU.

 

So a quick update. The car had a bunch electrical gremlins of which I have exorcised 2 (maybe 3). To recap;


1) The door lock switch on the arm rest would not work.

This was an easy fix. The microswitch on the driver's side interior door handle had a loose screw. Tightening the screw realigned the switch. Problem solved.

2) The driver's side window would not drop when being unlocked with the key, when opening from the inside, or opening from the outside until the door was opened. When the door is then closed, it will drop a half an inch and sit there for 15 seconds before closing again.

I fixed the window not dropping with the key barrel. Again, it was a microswitch out of alignment. I realigned the microswitch on the key barrel from inside the door and the window will now drop when I unlock it with the key. I also tightened up the exterior door handle as the cable had a lot of slack.

The window will still not drop when the door handle is pulled from the interior or exterior. This is intermittent and will sometimes (maybe 1 out of 10 times) act appropriately.

3) The power window switches stay illuminated all the time and will drain the battery if not on a tender, leading me to believe that something is refusing to go to sleep.

This may be fixed as I went out to look earlier and it seems as though they are turned off. This too was intermittent though, so I am holding my breath.

So all in all, maybe 50% of the issues were misadjusted switches. I also unplugged and reseated all of the microswitch plugs in the drivers door while I was in there just in case there was a bad connection.

 

Weird. The handles are wired into different pins on the ECU. It seems strange that both would have issues unless
1) the ECU is faulty (or the ECU plug pins are corroded (generally)).
2) some other switch is in the wrong place which is inhibiting the window drop. Normally I would suspect the window drop microswitch (on the regulator), but you got the window to operate normally with the exterior key lock.

I'm assuming they run on a timer. How long did you hold your breath?

The window rises after 15 seconds because you have not opened the door (so I'm assuming this behaviour is to do with that).

I still think that a few wiring checks will tell you if all your switches are operating correctly. The only problem is that I don't have any reliable data on the interior wiring of the key barrel microswitches.

 

SON OF A!!!! So the window drop issue is back with a vengeance and the light switches stay on. I have noticed a clicking down near my knee occasionally, almost like a relay opening or a microswitch tripping. I will unplug the door and do some electrical checks at the connector next. Followed by taking the door apart again (sigh) and seeing if I can adjust the microswitch on the regulator. Although, I would find it odd if the window regulator microswitch kept the window ECU from sleeping.

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You have have numerous issues.

Did you get the chance to look at the pins on the Window ECU for general condition? They have been known to be contaminated/corroded.

 

I think it is the same issue, or part that is causing the problem. There is a 100% correlation between the window switches going to sleep and the window working correctly. This morning, I went to get something out of the car. The window switches were on (stayed on all night) and the window did not drop when I oppened the door. When I closed the door, the window operated correctly. It closed and did not do the weird open back up thing. I looked, and the window switches had gone to sleep. Curiously, if I lock the door from the inside with the armrest lock switch, and then use the interior handle to open the door, the window drops correctly 100% of the time. If the doors are not locked and I use the interior handle, the window will not drop. Anyway, tomorrow I will look at the ECU and door connectors. I am hesitant to throw $300 at it by buying another window ECU until I am 100% sure that is the issue.

 

OK. I think I may be getting somewhere. If I use my finger to close the door latch on the door, the window exhibits the same behavior. Up, down, up after 15 seconds. This leads me to believe it is the door latch microswitch. On the pinout diagram you have provided it shows that the door latch microswitch is 7/15. How do I go about testing the signal there? See if there is voltage between 7 and ground? 15 and ground? Thanks.

 

Are you testing at the ECU or the main door plug?

On the main door plug, check for continuity between pin 14 and pin 15 when you latch the door (with your finger)

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At the ECU, check for continuity between 7 of plug C (orange/blue wire) and pin 10 of plug B

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I just realised that the door latch is responsible for the door open warnings on the instrument binnacle. Maybe check this with the ignition on?

The earth/ground is shared with the window switch. I wonder if this is a clue.

 

Perfect. Thank you. I will check the door plug first as it's easier to get to. I am certain that the car believes the door is open and that is what is causing the issues. It would explain the window not dropping when I open it from the exterior door handle, It would explain why the window drops immediately after the door is closed until the ECU hits its 15 second limit. Strangely enough, the interior dome light and door open warning on the binnacle are operating correctly. Perhaps they are triggered by the plunger on the A pillar?

I am sure there is nothing wrong with the window regulator microswitch as the window drops to the correct position every time (even though it is late), regardless of how the door is opened.

 

The wiring from the latch switch to the instrument panel door open warning does go through a splice. The splice also feeds the:
Window ECU
Interior lights (time delay module)
F1 pump circuit

Perhaps the Window ECU plugs are faulty? Perhaps doing the continuity tests on the ECU plugs would be best (irrespective of how difficult it is).

The lights on the door (red?) and the alarm system use the plunger switch on the A pillar.

 

Interesting. The f1 pump primes every time the drivers door is open. The door open light on the binnacle always activates and the dome light never fails to come on when the door is opened or go off when the door is closed. Starting to think you are right about the window ECU. More snow here tomorrow, I will have to get to it in a week or so.

 

Assuming the microswitch on the door latch is closed (short circuit) when the door is open, an intermittent open circuit or high resistance at the Window ECU plug would probably make the ECU think that the door latch was permanently closed. This would help explain some of what you are seeing. Having said that, I don't why the plugs would be intermittent. Maybe slamming the door creates vibrations which alter the resistance. Or there is some moisture in the plugs creating a different level of continuity.

 

Well I figured out the window drop issue. It is not an electrical gremlin, rather a mechanical one. I am not sure if this is better or worse. I found that the bracket that holds the rear of the window to the vertical track is loose. See the attached video. If I hold the top of the window and close the door softly so that the window does not rattle in its track, then it works as designed, 100% of the time. The window will not drop after closing the car door. It will also then drop correctly the next time I pull the exterior handle. If I close the door as you would normally do, with a normal amount of force, the window rattles, then exhibits the drop behavior. Anyone know what can cause this rattle? I tried to tighten the nut on the bracket but it was already tight. I also made sure the two retaining bolts on the regulator were tight. They were. Do I need a new vertical track, or bracket do you think?

 

Are your window switch lights extinguishing now?

I still don't fully understand what's going on. Are the windows powering down (rather than just dropping down from gravity)? I don't understand what lateral movement of the window would do to any electrical components.

 

Just adding this all over the site, in case I get lucky:

Had a rebuilt window regulator put in my car. Now my passenger side does as others:

Lift handle, window drops out of the weather stripping and allows the door to open.. Close the door, window rolls up then drops right back down as it does when I lift up on the handle. About 15sec later, window rolls all the way up.
When I try to lock the doors, they lock then unlock.
Handle has the normal amount of play before lifting, but the entire handle itself feels a little on the looser side, compared to how it was before the window rebuild and also compared to the driver side.
It was not like this before, and the door/window *was* fully functioning.
Now, I have this issue and it keeps me from locking the doors.
When I hold the plunger below the A-pillar, and trip the door latch with a screwdriver, I then try to arm the alarm again. Door still locks then unlocks.
I suppose it could be a coincidence and one of the switches failed during the time the regulator was being installed. Seems unlikely, though the regulator came with most of the parts still on it, so maybe a switch is misaligned. How would I know? Or, maybe I need to replace it with the switch from my old regulator.
I see there doesn't seem to be a fix for this problem, so far. I'm hoping we can find a solution today.
Also, not sure if it's pertinent information:
With all windows rolled up, I turn the battery off. When I turn the battery back on, the passenger side window drops down half an inch.
Apparently, the car things the door is open..............?

Any more ideas?

 

So why not take it back to the repair shop? Enjoy the challenge?

I'm having problems pinpointing the issue. The operation seems contradictory.

... or being opened. If the microswitch in the door latch thinks the door is open (i.e. unlatched physically), the window shouldn't roll back up again after 15 seconds. However, in some respects, the behaviour of the doorlocks does suggest that the door isn't latched. Or is the passenger door not latched properly. i.e. two issues.

Do you have a wiring diagram for the switches?

 

Yes. With with correlation to the window drop issue. I checked the continuity at the door plug and all is good. I am now 100% convinced it is the loose and rattling window, although I have no idea why. The good news is that the bracket and guide are both less than $50 so I will replace them and see if that tightens up the window.

 

The shop is taking forever to take the car back and I don't like driving it anywhere and not being able to lock it. The only thing that's been changed is the window regulator, so I *should* be able to narrow it down to that... BUT.... now that the exterior handle feels different.... I guess that's now an option. Maybe the shop moved or bumped another switch during the window install/adjust.

 

Same here. I wonder of the window pane is bumping something it shouldn't (wiring). Or maybe there is some weird fault combination of window position switch and Window ECU motor current sensing circuits. What happens to 430 windows if they hit an obstacle, say, at mid height, when they are going up? Do they stop at the point of obstruction or go back down again?

Anyway, good luck with the new components.

 

Update:
I replaced both exterior door handle cables. I found a bolt on one of the adjusters stripped so replaced it. Windows work correctly now.

 

Interesting. I wonder if the cables were sticking, making the system think that the handle had been pulled. Was the handle sitting flush when you closed the door?

The exterior handle is connected to linkages which are attached to the handle microswitch D308. This would trigger the initial window drop. If the door doesn't open (unlatch), the window should go up again (which seemed to be happening to your car).

Maybe the cable doesn't backdrive certain door components if it gets stuck. i.e. there is no effect on the handle or the latch in some cases.

 

I believe the passenger cable was the problem. The handle always felt "off". it was either hard to pull or "loose". It seemed to work find, but swapped it anyway. The window was acting like the door wasn't "closing all the way". Door close > window up > window drop > 10-15sec later window back up. Drove me nuts. I swapped out the adjuster at the same time. It may have allowed for movement in the glass which triggered a micro switch? Not sure if that's how it works. All I know is THANK god it's done. Two rebuilt regulators and two new exterior handle cables = fixed. Windows line up 90% right too (still a bit of play in the front delrin guides, on each side). You can't really tell they aren't perfect until you really stop and look.

 

So it turned out that my problem was caused by a misaligned microswitch on the exterior door handle. I only found it when I went to replace the entire door latch mechanism. I found that when I removed the exterior door handle cable, the exterior door microswitch clicked! I was then able to remove the door handle and bend the microswitch back into position. What was occurring was that when I opened the door from the exterior, the cam on the door handle would release the microswitch, but not return far enough to depress it, fooling the ECU into thinking that the door handle was still pulled. Good news is that I get to return the door latch mechanism which wasn't cheap, and my fix was free. That was a frustrating 2 months! Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. When in doubt, check all the microswitches first.