The real F40 with VIN 90969? (2nd is 85397)

It's highly favorable odds that a high-end car purchased in Dubai, Qatar, or that general area of the world is either stolen or never saw maintenance. The former due to dealers who only care about getting the object and selling it with no regard to its history, the latter because many owners in that area see them as truly throw-away toys that are bought, driven for a few months, sit unused because a new toy came along, and eventually just offloaded. Maintenance? No thank you, that's just extra cost. The next owner can worry about that.

The horror stories from even the most "well regarded" dealers on the big sites abound.

 

Theft.

Marcel Massini

 

I used to go to the Middle East for work a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if some "authorities" were in on the deals. Say 10% for protection. It's very murky and Byzantine.

 

So I hope the real owner, whoever that is, gets their car back asap. Unfortunately there is zero chance of holding the crooks accountable.

 

My dad, upon hearing of my first looming trip yonder, just said "watch yourself....nearly everyone over there would sell you their own mother for the right price, money is the ONLY language."

He weren't wrong.

 

I've been offered cheap cars in dubai before but passed, massively under market value

lots of stolen high end cars in the uk atm are going to dubai, it is what it is

 

Or caught fire and rebuilt?

 

When 85397 was in Japan the identity was changed.
The blue car has now been returned to the person whom it was seized from.
Ferrari are NOT restoring the car to its true identity and will not assist this car going back on the road.
Which makes it the worlds most expensive paper weight.

Marcel Massini

 

So would that mean that the car 85397 effectively now has no identity and now only suitable for track use, unless of course the owner of the paperwork for 85397 ( probably an insurance company now, and maybe unaware of this ) could possibly get around a table and negotiate a price for the car vs legal title, with the owner of said paperweight , would that be the solution or will this car have title again. ?

 

I'm just amazed that the car was returned to the people who brought it to the UK. In any case once back in Dubai it could miraculously morph into yet another identity. It's been done before and only fell apart because the same serial number car was for sale in Australia. Bad luck for the crooks that Mr Detective Aircon (The Legend) spotted it. Maybe they will be luckier next time.

 

And as an aside, are the 2 Red Books identical? IF they are, how did the "Dubai guys" get the REAL 90969 Red Book so they could copy it? Did they have someone "inside" Classiche?
This whole thing is amazing.

 

The UK police can and do seize stolen cars. Why not this stolen F40?
Berger's Ferrari F512M, stolen in Italy decades ago in 1995, was just seized by the UK police. It incidently spent time in Japan too.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/04/ferrari-stolen-from-f1-driver-gerhard-berger-recovered-28-years-later

 

Maybe the perpetrators claimed diplomatic immunity? Someone high up in the UAE government?

 

When buying a 30 year old garden variety Ferrari, it is very difficult to conduct proper due diligence on a VIN (except for M. Massini, whose help I would ask for if I was looking at an F40).

When I looked at cars in the past here in Dubai, Ferrari does have some information concerning stolen cars available to the dealer they will share for a fee as part of the inspection process, but the dealer here does not inspire confidence (especially if they have been servicing the car for years). The online sources outside of the US are a joke when checking a 30 year old car and Interpol will not provide such data. So you are on your own.

 

I agree about buying a car in Dubai, but the F40 was in England.
My point was that the UK police investigated. Apparently it was determined that this F40 was stolen years ago with its VIN changed to hide the theft, BUT the car was allowed to be exported back to the UAE. Why wasn't it impounded like the F512M that was stolen decades ago, but was impounded in the UK as detailed in the article above? Why the different outcomes for very similar situations? Why?

 

Not an English lawyer, but I suspect the 512 could definitely be identified as a specific other car beyond any doubt. Perhaps not the F40.

 

I have zero knowledge of this except from this forum and some other internet sites, but I got the impression that it was definitely 89357 which was a stolen car. Marcel? But I suppose people may not want to discuss this publicly IF the UAE owner is not someone you want to tangle with. Who knows? Not me.

 

Maybe the CIA is involved. Nothing to see here. ;^)

 

Could be or the Lizard People perhap? It is a mystery.

 

85397

I seem to remember that the guy in Dubai who used to own it got into some serious legal trouble due to allegations of financial fraud?
His whole car collection was put up for sale, and that was how the F40 ended up with a dealer in the UK.

Together with the La Ferrari stablemate, by the looks of it,

https://supercars.agent4stars.com/property/abduls-car-collection-dubai/

 

Since we play here with uninformed guesses, I could add my part
Maybe in the case of the F40 there was no more information about the original / legitimate owner (for instance, if after the theft the property was transferred to an insurance company that does not exist anymore...)

 

This is not the F40 you are looking for
but it is a stolen F40 that is being returned to it's rightful owner.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/lifestyle/motoring/2024/03/08/ferrari-returned-to-owner-24-years-after-25-million-supercar-was-stolen/

 

The problem for an innocent buyer is that when looking at a 30 used car, there is no reliable, accessible source to check whether it was stolen.

The car for sale will have legitimate ownership documents, the seller may even be able to show chain of title going back 10 year or more. Ferrari can (typically for a fee) tell you if it shows up as stolen on their database, but it is neither official, nor conclusive, there are stolen Ferraris out there they do not know about. The VIN search websites are a joke for such cars and Interpol will not share data. It is especially difficult if the car is stolen but has a forged serial number from a legitimate car, as every search will indicate it is not stolen.

 

Some of the information in this article is incorrect and totally made up.

Marcel Massini

 

So perfect for FChat. Lol.