F430 no start condition, help on wiring schematics | FerrariChat
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F430 no start condition, help on wiring schematics

Discussion in '360/430' started by 308GTB1978, Mar 11, 2024.

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  1. 308GTB1978

    308GTB1978 Karting

    Dec 21, 2013
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    France
    #1 308GTB1978, Mar 11, 2024
    Dear all,


    I'm helping a friend on a Euro 2008 F430 spider.

    This car has a no start condition but everything is OK : no light on dashboard, no code on OBD, battery OK, all fuses OK, bonnet closed, key OK, relays OK etc ...

    When you press the start button : nothing.

    The car is in Neutral (you can move the car by hand also).

    When using the OBD scanner, I cannot reach the "wheel steering system" whereas I can on other F430 (all the other ECU are OK) ? No idea about this box ??? But the magnetino is working properly.

    I'm going to try to start the engine by cheeting on the PSR6 relay, I think it will start but it will be a good test to demonstrate that this part of the system is OK.

    I think the problem is in the steering wheel or nearby, not the button but a switch/relay or the slip ring.

    I have the workshop manual but not the wiring diagrams, someone would be kind enought to give me the extract of the wiring diagram from the steering wheel/start button to all the concern matter for a start ?


    Thanks.
     
  2. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,931
    Isle of man- uk
    #2 mike32, Mar 11, 2024
    Put a multimeter on the starter motor solenoid and see if you get 12 volts before you start tearing apart, might also be the immobilser
     
  3. 308GTB1978

    308GTB1978 Karting

    Dec 21, 2013
    114
    France
    #3 308GTB1978, Mar 11, 2024
    Yes it might be but there is no immobiliser code in the ECU neither immo light on the dash, everything light up right.
    So that is part of my plan but not the most probable :)
     
  4. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    #4 mike32, Mar 11, 2024
    Send me an e mail address as i have the ignition drawing
     
  5. 308GTB1978

    308GTB1978 Karting

    Dec 21, 2013
    114
    France
    #5 308GTB1978, Mar 11, 2024
    MP done, thanks.

    You think everything about the start button action is relative to ignition on the 430 ?

    I would imagine the start button is only a "please start" signal to the ECU that, if all parameters are OK, send a +12V to the PSR6 relay ?
     
  6. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,744
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    #6 flash32, Mar 11, 2024
    Are the braies lights on when you press the brake to start car

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  7. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,931
    Isle of man- uk
    #7 mike32, Mar 11, 2024
    Check fuse PDF13 + PSF14 and relay PSR7 + Relay PSR6. Relay PSR 4 is in the system but not sure what it does.
    Looks like PSR6 relay is the signal to starter motor from terminal 87. If PSF14 fuse has blown then no signal to start relay
     
  8. 308GTB1978

    308GTB1978 Karting

    Dec 21, 2013
    114
    France
    #8 308GTB1978, Mar 11, 2024
    All fuses checked and OK.

    PSR6 and PSR7 already switched : no change.

    Break lights are ON when breaking (pedal sensor is OK).

    No start with or without foot on break (on an another EU F430, starting with no foot on break is possible).
     
  9. Penzinger

    Penzinger Karting

    Jul 13, 2019
    135
    Austria
    Full Name:
    Heinz
    #9 Penzinger, Mar 11, 2024
    It is advisable to keep the brake pedal pressed when starting the engine.
    This is checked by the brake light switch just below the brake pedal. This is the most likely source of error!
     
  10. 308GTB1978

    308GTB1978 Karting

    Dec 21, 2013
    114
    France
    #10 308GTB1978, Mar 11, 2024
    We do each time to keep it as simple as possible when tracking the problem : no start.
     
  11. 308GTB1978

    308GTB1978 Karting

    Dec 21, 2013
    114
    France
    #11 308GTB1978, Mar 11, 2024
    Thanks to @mike32 I juste look on the wiring diagram and it seems it is basic stuff, nothing to deal with some CAN data and special ECU as I fear.

    Except if there is discrepancy on car between 2004 and 2008 on this side ?

    Nevertheless, back to basics :) I go on the car and 'll tell you.

    Regards.
     
  12. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #12 Qavion, Mar 11, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2024
    The steering wheel start button controls relay PSR7. The manettino module in the steering wheel is part of the start button wiring (so it may be affected by the CAN Bus). The F1 system has to control start in some way. I can only explain that if the F1 TCU sends a signal to the manettino to inhibit the starter button signal.

    Relay PSR7 then sends a signal to PSR4 (charger start inhibit relay) and then PSR6 (starter relay)

    Do you have a Ferrari charger plugged in?

    PSR7 also sends a signal to PSR5 to inhibit radiator fan operation during start.

    @mike32 Did you send 308GTB1978 my big Instrument wiring diagram?

    Version 31 here:
    https://www.dropbox.com/t/hL9Rw6lT70DOuMA5
     
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  13. 308GTB1978

    308GTB1978 Karting

    Dec 21, 2013
    114
    France
    #13 308GTB1978, Mar 11, 2024
    Yes this car is under CTEK control in the garage ;)

    If you have any schematics about F430, I would appreciate :) (my 308 is most simple ;) )
     
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  14. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #14 Qavion, Mar 11, 2024
    Disregard... I forgot about the F1 TCU input into relay PSR6. I suspect the CAN bus may still be involved however.
     
  15. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #15 Qavion, Mar 11, 2024
    Does the charger have more than two pins on the connector?
     
  16. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #16 Qavion, Mar 11, 2024
    I have added a link to my diagram in forum post #12.

    Yes, F430's are far too complicated, electronically, for me :confused:
     
  17. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #17 Qavion, Mar 11, 2024
    Ah, also disregard. I was thinking you might have this light on the dashboard

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    i.e. the warning light to tell you to remove the charger. The charger will inhibit start if you have this light on.
     
  18. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #18 Qavion, Mar 11, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2024
    Does this other F430 have a gearstick or is it F1?

    There is a connector behind the driver's seat which can be jumped (shorted) to allow the starter to turn on an F1 car. Or you can short one pin directly to earth.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/149142999/

    The photo is of a 360, but the F430 is similar.

    See connector XA45/YA45 in the wiring diagrams,
     
  19. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #19 Qavion, Mar 11, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2024
    So, in summary.
    If the mannetino is causing the issue, try jumping relay PSR7 (pins 5 and 3) momentarily (with gearbox in Neutral)
    If the F1 TCU is causing the issue, try jumping/shorting connector YA45. Short pins 5 & 6 or short pin 5 to earth (masse)). The immobiliser must be off if you short pins 5 & 6. Or... just jump relay PSR6.
    If the start is being inhibited by a faulty PSR4 relay, try jumping pins 3 and 4 of the relay... or simply interchange with another relay (PSR1?)
     
  20. 308GTB1978

    308GTB1978 Karting

    Dec 21, 2013
    114
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    #20 308GTB1978, Mar 11, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2024
    PSR6 for gearbox ECU and PSR4 for immobiliser now I got it, thanks.

    I don't know but of course the tests are done with the charger unplung. No warning on the dashboard, especially the one you show : not present.

    Thanks a lot :cool:

    This is a F1 car, will try this direct jump (or direct jump on relays).
     
  21. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    #21 Qavion, Mar 11, 2024
    PSR4 is for the battery charger starter inhibit (not the immobiliser). The relay must be relaxed.
     
  22. 308GTB1978

    308GTB1978 Karting

    Dec 21, 2013
    114
    France
    #22 308GTB1978, Mar 11, 2024
    Your diagram apply to EU basic F430 also ?

    By the way you did a wonderfull job, so helpful for the community !!!!

    Thanks a lot :)
     
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  23. 308GTB1978

    308GTB1978 Karting

    Dec 21, 2013
    114
    France
    #23 308GTB1978, Mar 11, 2024
    Understood !
     
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  24. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    #24 mike32, Mar 11, 2024
    I sent from my book so may differ from yours
     
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  25. LorenzoR

    LorenzoR F1 Rookie
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    #25 LorenzoR, Mar 11, 2024
    That loop, I'm almost certain, is on the passenger side of an F430. I can try to find pics if needed
     
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