Cost to run a 488 Challenge or challenge car

I have also ran Hankooks on my 458 CH EVO and didn't have any issues with TCS but my tech is a mad scientist so he had it all dialed in.

 

Slightly off topic but for anyone looking to race on a budget I can’t recommend the mazda miata/mx5 racecar enough, I have one with a sequential gearbox and it’s a riot. It is 95% of the fun of the challenge car and 5% of the cost. It also makes you a way better driver because you can’t horsepower yourself out of mistakes. If you screw up a turn then 5 cars are going to overtake you on the exit and there is nothing you can do about it! At Monticello Motor Club (2 hours west of NYC) we do races with 40 cars on the track, it’s a riot.

 

What a great thread.

 

Totally worth every penny. I don’t even want to know what I spent for the Sonoma weekend .... but it was worth it.

 

So if you run a DE with the 488 Challenge EVO how would provide a point by? The window opening is quite small so a point by to the left is possible with the “alligator arm” but a point by to the right seems almost impossible?

Can the entire window panel be removed on driver side? There are setups with a passenger seat for a coach so the passenger window panel may need to be removed as well.

 

The 488 challenge is fast enough that you never need to point anyone by

You would use your blinkers.

I have seen right seat coaches do point byes out of the tiny window.

 

which series and class?

 

Side windows are removable. Additionally I’ve seen guys who cut the back half off the window for more airflow. But as Andy said, the side indicator buttons are the easiest method.

 

The 458 Challenge has the same windows with the small opening.

The Challenge EVO does not have windows, but many Challenge cars were converted to EVO, which included the installation of the aero kit.

So the way to tell whether an ‘EVO’ has been converted is that it has side windows,

There were much fewer true EVOs produced, most are converted Challenge cars.

 

Great thread!

I have been looking at 488 Challenge cars as a means of getting something extreme and beautiful in the garage that I can use for HPDE events. No competition use.

My home track is Club Motorsport, Tamsworth, NH. I use my 458 and AMG GTR approx 5 times a year there split between them. I turn 1:49s on average.

Want to do a few more events and love how the 458 feels on track, so that is how I landed on 488 Challenge. Purpose built. Safer. Etc.

Does anyone use the car in that regard? Zero competition. Fun only. Trailer to a Porsche, BMW, SCCA etc track day. Run around. Burn up a set of tires and go home?

I wasn’t aware of all licensing and software / cables that are needed. So that is great to call out when looking.

From what I have gathered, competing in the cars they do require a decent amount of oversight and handling. But when driven at 6-7/10s. Would it be more normal? Nut and bolt check. Fluid swaps. Tire inspection. Send it?

Or no. No matter what you need an engineer to oversee and review the car?

 

You can’t trailer this car to the track and burn a set of tires and go home you need support. Your local race team will provide it, ask your local Ferrari dealer who their challenge people use. Guideline for costs are $10k per day support (mechanic plus engineer for data etc), $2k per day plus expenses for a coach (highly recommend otherwise you’re wasting your time), $3,000 per set of tires (probably 2 sets per day), rotors are $10k each (change once per season), brake pads about $2,500 per set so $5,000 for both sets, will need to change every 3/4 days I would say. Gas is $12 a gallon and the car does 4 miles to the gallon. If you crash, damage will range from $10k for something minor to $150k (that was my biggest crash). In between track days the car will go back to the race shop for service and will cost anywhere from a few thousand for fluids to $20k for big items. If you don’t get a new car and things start failing then costs go through the roof. For example the spindles start cracking (I have this with my car now) and those are $10k per corner. If a turbo goes that’s tens of thousands etc. This is a laugh out loud car to drive fast by yes it is very expensive. If you love your 458 frankly I would stick with that and maybe think about adding a spec miata with sequential gearbox, it will make you a great driver and that is a car you can trailer anywhere and needs no support. Sorry don’t shoot the messenger, no one will be honest with you about the costs before you buy the car. I don’t think this purchase makes sense if you want to drive at 6/7 out of 10 to be totally honest.

 

100% accurate accounting. The only thing I’d add is if you went with an earlier car the costs are less and with several models you could one man it for a weekend. At the end of the day it’s still a Ferrari and it’s going to cost money to race them though. It’s just a question of how much and how fast you want to go.

 

Yup. 100% correct here.

If one wants, you could foolishly try to get into a 488 Challenge and putter about a track. But that is both dangerous and ill advised. In order for you to do a SINGLE lap at 7/10s, you will need crew to strap you in - can't do it alone. you need someone to check tire pressures when you pull into the hot pits. You can't do that strapped in. You need TWO people to fuel the car. One for gas and one to vent. You will need special tools to take tires on and off, raise the car up and down, fuel the car...etc..

Over the last 5 years of running a 488 Challenge Evo in Club I wouldn't dream of buying with the intent of running it alone. More if you want to hear....

 

Rob I admire your mechanical skills and what I wrote above is definitely the fully priced way to do it, but I would rather give a prospective buyer the full costs assuming they will not be able or want to do anything themselves. Also the 488 is a very complicated racecar, if you go to a track and you have a lot of understeer are you making adjustments yourself to the setup? Ron is spot on, how do you fuel? To change tires you need the nitrogen tank to raise the car, are you doing that alone? Who is going to put their foot on the brake while you torque the wheels? Can you trailer the car to the track after it is “race prepped” and drive it 10 laps until something needs doing and then just put it back on the trailer. I suppose you could, but then you’re just buying the wrong car. Ron is even right about the tires, you can’t start them below about 20 psi and for the slicks the hot pressure target is 27.5, after hot laps you come in hot and you need to check the pressure, are you undoing all the belts climbing out of the car and doing this yourself? Drive with pressures that are too high and it will be dangerous and could cause a big incident. This is a 670 horsepower racecar that weighs over 3,000 pounds that will do over 170 mph, the G forces generated in a crash can be deadly. Like all challenge drivers that pushed themselves hard and took the racing seriously I had a few big impacts. I’m sorry, this just isn’t the car to run on a shoestring or cut corners or try to drive at 7/10. Take it seriously or don’t bother. There are lots of show up and drive cars, miatas, caymans etc. This isn’t the car to F around with in my opinion.

 

The other factor to consider is time. Most guys I know that have the resources to buy and operate Ferrari race cars aren’t keen to arrange a weekend, travel, get to the track anticipating a fun weekend, and then pack it all up and go home after a handful of laps because they don’t have a working car. If you don’t have support this becomes a very real possibility. Support means not only operating the car but also reasonable access to spares etc to keep you running for a weekend. Hell, a lot of these guys come with an entire spare car or two just so their time isn’t wasted in the event of an issue.

Rob’s right some cars can be ran by the driver. 348, 355, 360, 430, and even the 458 are plenty fast enough and fairly less complicated than the 488. They are also significantly faster than a comparable street car. In fact there’s a lot of guys who I am confident would beat a street form 458 around a track in a 355 challenge without breaking a sweat. Prospective buyers should not overestimate their abilities or needs as a driver. Buy a car to learn in and have fun with that doesn’t cost a ton or it’ll turn you off a great sport very quickly.

 

After tracking a 458 Challenge, and now a 992 Cup pretty extensively for 3 years, I’ve learned quite a bit, not all of it pleasant. As @JAM1 said above, there are a lot of other things to consider.

Tracking takes a lot of concentration, you can easily get distracted maintaining a car trackside, and track time is precious.

 

I just finished my first weekend with a friend who has just acquired a 488C EVO. Definitely trying to operate at the low end of budget and will just be for track days for a while. Goal is to grow into club challenge races perhaps. But that comes with a whole bunch more costs. I haven’t computed all the costs yet for weekend track day fun and I’m still waiting to get hold of component life sheets so I can calculate amortization costs, but it’s going to be at least a $300/lap adventure without paying anyone else labor, and without any damage. Lots of good points above. Definitely cannot go solo will need a helper whether that’s a friend or someone friendly at the track that will lend a hand.
Our ability to manage without outside help is aided by my 35 years of automotive engineering and racing experience plus he’s an engineer and willing to learn and invest in a few key tools like the license for the ECU cable and software, wheel guns, nitrogen bottles, tire temp gauge, etc. He added a second seat and needs to add a camera data system, intercom, and couple other things.
We both have lifts and plenty of tools at home as well. And we’ll acquire more no doubt.
Anything is possible, and people’s budgets vary wildly. since I don’t know what your background, experience or financial resources are I’ll end my input there. As we learn more we will document and share what we can but truthfully at this level it’s often better not to add it up so you can maintain plausible deniability LOL
There is no justification for Ferrari Challenge cars or any car at this performance level. Getting involved is simply just a crime of passion. Chase your dreams and make them come true!

 

You make a lot of good points Rob, but I tried running the car with the $500/day types this season and it didn’t work well at all. I don’t know enough to run the car myself, pull data, I like help getting strapped in and plugged into the cool box etc. I’m just not hands on enough, but you obviously are and more power to you, it will save a lot of money for sure.

My car is going to a proper race shop in January and I’m going to evaluate whether the car is worth bringing back up to par or whether it would be cheaper to buy a new car. For low $200s it should be possible to buy a brand new 488 challenge evo ans they are no longer eligible for challenge racing (only 296s now). I’ll probably have that race shop support the racing this year and I’ll let you know what I negotiate!

 

This is entertaining.

 

I understand the viewpoint of Rob. I ran a 355 challenge also.

The new cars are so fast they require a crew to be able really enjoy them. The electronics on these cars are essential to the safety and performance of the new cars. The newer cars are also heavy and require tire changes frequently. No longer can you run these cars on old tires.

You can run a 458 or a 488 without a crew, but honestly you will never understand or experience the full enjoyment of the Ferrari race car.
What do you need?
You need a mechanic which understands race setup, Ferrari electronics, and time running a 488 or 458,
The 488 and 296 can monitor over 250 sensors. These cars even know what track you are at if it is loaded into the system. The electronics is part of the experience of owning this type of car.

The 348,355,360 and 430 could be driven to the track without too much drama.

I find the newer cars much more fun and challenging to drive. They are a lot safer and more comfortable even though I am still sitting on just the carbon without pads.