Just a question

You know that those cars were not designed to be friendly to mechanics, right? That is the reason.

 

Is that because they are so basic, just fluid changes etc that there is no money in it?

Say, compared to engine out cam belt services in a 348/355 which you can give out $10K service/repair bills?

 

I think the long service program from the factory has contributed to the lack of interest in servicing these models. The owners have been getting minimal service from the included service program for many years. Now that the service coverage is over, I believe the window is opening for other shops. Clients are reaching out now and some shops don't want it because they haven't seen many. Just my thought. I could be wrong.

 

I think you are 100% right. And you need the Leonardo / computer to read all the codes and talk to the computer - which is a pretty hefty investment unless you are really seeing a lot of cars.

 

And the yearly license fee to stay up to date is not insignificant.

 

These cars do sort of fall between the cracks of what a lot of independent shops typically cater to...

Old school Ferrari/Italian car shops do shy away from them due to the tech required compared to the older models.

General performance shops or Porsche/BMW/VW-Audi specialists may be completely comfortable with that level of tech, but don't want to take on unfamiliar vehicles, especially with the perceived liability of the Ferrari marque.

As always, this is both a problem and an opportunity for people that want to take it on.

 

I have a couple 458 clients that I service. Not particularly easy to work on. I have to stock another oil filter. I'm not crazy about the self-applying E-brake, and the gearbox that automatically goes into park. It is a hassle to put one on my lift.

 

Sounds a bit annoying for sure.

 

But you're grumpy anyway.

 

There is a tool in the kit that is used to unlock the gearbox. It took a while to figure out what to do with it. The E-brake can also be switched off. Just nuisances that I'd rather not have.

I'm not soliciting work on these cars.

 

I back the 458/488 on the lift and when the doors open and are about an inch from the lift upright left and right, that is the spot. I have used Go-Jacks for dead cars too. That makes it much easier to rack a dead car. They are definitely more challenging to work on but I don't mind working on them. I guess I am not old enough to be grumpy yet. I think it is coming though.

 

How is the parts supply for these particular models? And are these models more difficult to service than even newer vintages, or are they simply representative of all these complex cars becoming service orphans once they age out and are no longer new, but not old enough to be classics?

 

I have serviced my 458 for 10 years now; service= fluid changes only from pwr steering to DCT and everything liquid in between. The mechanical park lock is BS, I locked it out completely and rely on the EPB to engage when parked. I don’t park on inclines that might override the EPB and use the switch on the dash to deactivate it when it goes on the lift for service. To me this Ferrari is the easiest one to maintain than any of the others I have owned.
The problem I see with you pros is there cant be any money it for you if all they need is fluid changes. I have 24000 miles on it now and it has needed nothing except the std. service stuff. The biggest problem I have is getting the huge underbelly pan off; have to drag my wife out to the shop to help balance the damn thing because it would be easy to break the edges of it.

 

[QUOTE="...
The problem I see with you pros is there cant be any money it for you if all they need is fluid changes. ....[/QUOTE]

Wow, tell us how you really feel.

 

Wow, tell us how you really feel.[/QUOTE]
How did you get offended by that!; I was agreeing with the above posts by the pros not wanting to work on these cars. Someone pee in your soup today?

 

Geez Tom are you Ok. My post was simply to respond to the above comments about there not being any money in “servicing” the 458, ie; fluids changes, minor issues that aren’t time consuming or costly to fix. That seemed to be what your original question, and the other responses, were referring too and I was trying to replying/commenting on the fact that; One, they don’t really need much attention other than general “servicing” of the liquids. Two, the cars seem to be one of Ferraris better quality/engineered designs and things don’t fail regularly; examples like: the header issue on 355-430s, they don’t have motor mount problems, 355 valve guide problems, electrical issues, ball joint failures, no engine out belt services every 3 to 5 years, no exhaust mounting problems, F1 clutches and you know the list goes on.

The 458 just doesn’t seem to need a lot attention where you pros can justify all “tools” you would need to acquire to fix problems that don’t come up. Isn’t that what you were referring to? Simply stating is it worth the cost to you guys since they seem to be fairly reliable compared to the rest of the family. I thought my post was agreeing with the other posts in this thread.

And to answer your question about my experience:
I’m not a pro and never said I was but, I have always done my own work on my and friends Ferraris for the last 35 years and has included many engine out services on the 348s, 355s, 512tr, belt services on 308s, general maintenance on a 246 and rebuild and tuned several sets of webers, clutch jobs etc.

Thats me in the blue shirt in case you are wondering, oh, and thanks for waiting and stop being so grumpy

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I not sure what your comment has to do with your original question; your op asked for opinions about the value for you to invest your time and money in the newer cars. If you wanted only certain people to answer your question then why not PM the respective people and be done with it? Who said anything about how hard it is doing it for a living?; if don’t like the business part of what you do why not find something else to do.

I thought I was helping with the question with my experience with the 458 having the time of ownership and the experience of maintaining the car might be helpful in determining weather its worth the investment of all the tools (that you may not use very often) and time for what I think would be costly based on the ROI. They appear to be pretty solid design that really only needs general maintenance, ie; could you make enough off of just the general maintenance to make it worth the investment?

Then you comeback and double down with the above trivial and condescending comment referring that I and my buddies get a couple of cold packs and sit around bs ing and changing the points and plugs on someone’s chevy small block. I don’t see any beer cans or other bodies in the above pictures do you? You and I both know that Ferraris are in another mechanical league than your basic Toyota. I find myself blessed and rewarding to have the ability and knowledge to be involved in what’s “inside” these machines vs. being a poser and only owning one to be seen in it; which is probably what most of your customers are. Just because you do this for a living doesn’t mean you are the only one that is God’s gift to Ferrari mechanics and everyone else is an idiot.
Have a nice day, I had a better comment but I don’t want to get banned

 

FWIW I totally got the spirit of what you were trying to say, as I am sure the majority of readers did.

Ferrari is trying to outdo the Germans when it comes to reliability, and with the 7 year maintenance plan, it must be hard for the independent shops to have enough work from recent Ferraris.

Those of us who have been Ferrari owners for a few decades all have empathy for the independents… they made Ferrari ownership more accessible for many of us.

 

Small simple jobs like fluid changes are far more profitable than major services on the earlier cars and carry far fewer liabilities.
How many businesses are called "Major Service" and how many are called "Oil changers"?
Thats just bullcrap. Quick, fast easy jobs that can easily be done by lower skilled people for less money with very little knowledge or training is far more profitable and why major corporations pursue that business to the exclusion of everything else.
How many people are out there that can do a major on a 355 very quickly, accurately with no mistakes time after time after time? Very few.
How many can change oil quickly, accurately and with no mistakes time after time? About every 2nd person walking down the sidewalk.

I dont and never will service the later cars.
1. I don't think they are very good cars.
2. I have no desire to make the investment for expensive equipment to service them.
3. I am overwhelmed working on the cars I like and am already equipped to do.

If I wanted a career doing something I hated I would not be in the car business.

 

Your assumptions about profitability are 100% wrong.