F430 no start condition, help on wiring schematics

It was because we discover that the first time we went on the car, so before only Gérard did something

When Gérard check his hydraulic fluid level (at the very beginning), he involuntarily disconnected the hose but didn't see it.

(I check : no fluid loss near the hose plug).

Then he had problems and asked for help, you know the rest.

Will see, maybe tomorrow.

 

I understand (and technicaly I agree) but we have no other idea as when we see the car for the first time the hose was unplunged for sure !

And Gérard called for help because he was not able to shift gears (engine was running). Here was your help on phone with him.
He disconnected the battery, reconnected the day after then neither the engine started nor the gear shift worked.

Then we arrived : the hose was disconnected.

Crazy for sure !

Did Gérard disconnected the hose after he did some tests with you ? Technicaly more logical but not the case according to him
Did the Topdon tool (Gérard on stick) not performed the job he was supposed to do ???

 

This failure is complex, 3 of us have just spent the afternoon on the car: I'm putting a summary here.

Fasten your seatbelt

So it is a French F430 spyder from the end of 2008 (CFC301), battery less than a year old, clutch changed at the dealership less than 1000 km ago, everything OK so far.

What I pieced together:

The owner checked his F1 fluid level, we assume that at one point while manipulating the right rear wing panel he disconnected the hydraulic hose from the clutch at the hydraulic connection.
After that the engine would start but no gear would shift.
He did some manipulations with a Topdon OBD tool (I don't have the details), everything seemed ok but still no gear change.
He disconnected the battery overnight.
At that time, the engine would no longer start and still no gear change.

I landed there, we immediately detect that the clutch hydraulic hose is disconnected, we reconnected it.
We do not find any error in the TCU and we focus on the failure to start.
We end up succeeding in starting the engine by playing on the PSR6 relay (it normally receives a signal from the TCU, which we therefore replace just to start).
We then see that the primary gearbox shaft rotates at the same speed as the engine in N !!!
Bleeding the clutch control is successfully carried out as well as gearbox self-learning, everything seems normal, no error in memory but no engine start using the start button or gear change.

This day, we start by writting, with two different OBD tools, all the important values of the TCU in N:
PIS = 4.187 mm
Selection potentiometer position = 728
Engaging potentiometer position = 477
Clutch wear index = 0 / 0%
Clutch pressure plate position = 16.492 mm
Clutch pressure plate travel reference = 16.49 mm
Clutch position closed = 16.492 mm
Clutch position from new = 0 mm
Clutch position from new2 = 0 mm

Several values surprise us and in N the gearbox shaft always turns at the same speed as the engine !
We try to bleed the clutch (without opening the screw) to see the Clutch thrust bearing mouvement but the tool does not allow this function to be performed while displaying the computer values (position etc.).
We try to re-learn: everything works but in the end no change.

Then we use a function in the OBD tool : activation of the clutch solenoid valve : it seems to work.
The problem is that mechanically nothing is visible.
We then try to introduce an articulated endoscope through the passage of the clutch sensor cable : it works, we see the Clutch thrust bearing live: I don't remember anymore, maybe it was necessary to start the engine then activate this function again : miraculously the Clutch thrust bearing moves on the screen.

We turn everything off, turn the ignition back on : we are in N if we start (still PSR6 shunt) the clutch is open, the primary shaft no longer turns : progress.
The Clutch thrust bearing moves as expected now.
But we still don't shift into any gear (engine off or on).
So mechanically everything is OK but the TCU decides that there is a problem and blocks the engine start using the start button but also the gear change !!!!

At one point we also notice that if pressing the start button still does not crank, we can hear a relay "click" whereas this was not the case before.
We decide to do self-learning again, no change.
We also notice at this moment that when the car starts, the gearbox is in N/Auto/Down arrow.
You cannot remove auto mode or shift into reverse. You have to start the engine (still shunting PSR6) to remove auto mode (it wasn't like that before).
Obviously we have no error codes in the TCU.

We then have telephone support from Dominik (flash32) (big thanks), we summarize all that and do tests again : the brake sensor is OK, hood sensor OK, yes the Clutch thrust bearing moves.
For him we should not have positions at 16.5 mm but rather 19 or 20 mm (magnet poorly mounted?) and the clutch position since new should not be at 0.
He asks us to write 16 mm in "clutch position since new", we do it, cut everything for 5 minutes then we read again : this time we no longer have 0 but 16 mm: OK. We also restart a clutch bleed (without opening the screw) : we can clearly see with the endoscope the Clutch thrust bearing moving and the OBD announces a clutch pressure plate position around 4.6 mm which returns to 16.5 mm at the end.
But still no change for gear shifting and engine starting.
We do self-learning again, we cut off, we wait 5 min : still no start or gear change, still in N/Auto/down arrow, auto mode cannot be disconnected except when starting (by shunting PSR6) engine.
We read again the TCU fault codes : no fault code.

I hope I haven't forgotten anything important, here we are : the TCU refuses to start and to shift gears but we don't know why.
Note : in the OBD you can clearly see the value of the paddles moving if you press them, as with the brake pedal sensor, driver's door sensor, hood sensor, etc.

To be followed

 

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The video when the Clutch thrust bearing was kind enought to work :

https://uploadnow.io/f/PglSDJg

 

So here are the values in the memory at the beginning of the day (only minor changes at the end of the day) :

Minimum engagement threshold for gear 1 : 100
Minimum engagement threshold for gear 2 : 701
Minimum engagement threshold for gear 3 : 100
Minimum engagement threshold for gear 4 : 725
Minimum engagement threshold for gear 5 : 100
Minimum engagement threshold for gear 6 : 715
Minimum engagement threshold for gear N : 416
Minimum engagement threshold for gear R: 699

Minimum selection threshold for gear 1 : 417
Minimum selection threshold for gear 2 : 422
Minimum selection threshold for gear 3 : 612
Minimum selection threshold for gear 4 : 618
Minimum selection threshold for gear 5 : 784
Minimum selection threshold for gear 6 : 790
Minimum selection threshold for gear N : 316
Minimum selection threshold for gear R: 100

Maximum engagement threshold for gear 1 : 238
Maximum engagement threshold for gear 2 : 950
Maximum engagement threshold for gear 3 : 215
Maximum engagement threshold for gear 4 : 950
Maximum engagement threshold for gear 5 : 231
Maximum engagement threshold for gear 6 : 950
Maximum engagement threshold for gear N : 536
Maximum engagement threshold for gear R : 950

Maximum selection threshold for gear 1 : 610
Maximum selection threshold for gear 2 : 616
Maximum selection threshold for gear 3 : 782
Maximum selection threshold for gear 4 : 788
Maximum selection threshold for gear 5 : 980
Maximum selection threshold for gear 6 : 980
Maximum selection threshold for gear N : 897
Maximum selection threshold for gear R : 408

Self-calibrating engagement position with electrovalve on gear 1 : 188
Self-calibrating engagement position with electrovalve on gear 2 : 751
Self-calibrating engagement position with electrovalve on gear 3 : 165
Self-calibrating engagement position with electrovalve on gear 4 : 775
Self-calibrating engagement position with electrovalve on gear 5 : 181
Self-calibrating engagement position with electrovalve on gear 6 : 765
Self-calibrating engagement position with electrovalve on gear N : 476
Self-calibrating engagement position with electrovalve on gear R : 749

Self-calibrating position position for maximum selection on gear 1 : 568
Self-calibrating position position for maximum selection on gear 2 : 574
Self-calibrating position position for maximum selection on gear 3 : 747
Self-calibrating position position for maximum selection on gear 4 : 756
Self-calibrating position position for maximum selection on gear 5 : 885
Self-calibrating position position for maximum selection on gear 6 : 887
Self-calibrating position position for maximum selection on gear RM : 358

Self-calibrating position position for minimum selection on gear 1 : 467
Self-calibrating position position for minimum selection on gear 2 : 472
Self-calibrating position position for minimum selection on gear 3 : 654
Self-calibrating position position for minimum selection on gear 4 : 660
Self-calibrating position position for minimum selection on gear 5 : 820
Self-calibrating position position for minimum selection on gear 6 : 823
Self-calibrating position position for minimum selection on gear RM : 326

 

Hello Dominik,

I may ask the owner if he can do it alone as we are back home, by the way if this sensor is dead, we would have an error code in the ECU ?

We have no error

I imagine the TCU is messed up ... and looking for a "back to factory parameters" procedure without getting it out of the car !

 

We performed some tests on an another EU F430, but a 2005 one with CFC231 : the only way to change the gears with the paddles is : engine hatch closed, foot on break, engine runing. No matter for the driver door.

What is also strange is to have "N+auto+down arrow" and that cannot be changed except by starting the engine (PSR6 shunt).

For the pressure test, will see with the owner.

 

Which ECU is in charge to transform the analog signal from the break pedal switch to a CAN data ?

By the way, break switch condition pressed/released was OK on the OBD tool (TCU selected).

 

By looking back to all the gathered data, I just find the error code 02B6 in the "Parking sensor" may this code be the bad guy ?

Nevertheless, the car has a manual parking brake, in N we can move the car by hand.

What I've found :

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So break pedal switch would be a an analog signal AND a CAN data.

 

When looking deeply in my documentation, the symptoms looks like a "clutch position sensor recovery" strategy !

No idea to get out from this ...