F12, £735/year. After April 2017 the cost rocketed up to over £2k for the first year and then I think about £1k/year.
Chris Harris was banned by Ferrari for exposing this... Considering LF vs XX, as Georges explained well, it is impossible that the XX with 300 kg more and an equivalent power can make this difference on Fiorano, where the aero downforce of the XX does not allow it... on Mugello, the discussion could have been opened... then if you put the XX on slicks, despite the external appearance of the trade, it is clear that the tyres make the difference. I'd like to see A customer car reproduces this time, but the test will not take place... finally, the times on Fiorano remain anecdotal....The important thing is that you like the car.
CH was banned from Ferrari for exposing what - show me the you tube website link anything ... if he was banned there must be proof not just him saying he got banned. He's been saying that for a decade to get attention. 1. XX makes 60+ more power and far more efficiently 2. Aero and AWD - Ferrari added it to go faster not slower. You did see - you just don't like what you saw. Anyway - I like the truth and if it's not true then prove it. Ferrari did not hide anything as you state - prove your point or let us enjoy the ride. You can't have it both ways - hey your car "well it's a fake" Chris Harris and I know it. That's utter nonsense. Show me where Ferrari cheated on XX - you do that and I will never come here again Proof! CH ruined himself on 765LT - he hated it then loved it - no explanation and then said they changed the LT bc of me. Fact is they did not and he is a moody brat who dislikes expensive cars. Tires are always improving - you prefer the XX run its lap on LaF tires... sheesh. Next gen 812 is on the way - guarantee it's faster than comp that's how they sell cars.
Looking at the models that appear in the table below (La Ferrari is not listed because Ferrari never revealed its dry weight) we see that there is a direct relationship between the power to weight ratio and the times obtained in Fiorano. The lower the dry weight per cv , the shorter the time obtained in Fiorano. As I think the F167 will also correspond to this logic, IMO it will only be able to beat the 812 C's time in Fiorano if its Dry weight/Power value is somewhere between that of the 812C and the SF 90 Stradale. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Nice work Mario, I think your chart also needs to show the tires used. The tires make a huge difference and the improvement in tires has been truly amazing. To ruminate on the F12tdf, it was offered with special Pirelli PZero Corsa tires, which are very good tires, but not at the level of the optional Cup2R which are offered on the 812 Competizione. If Ferrari used the Cup2R tires, that is already a big advantage. Ideally, one would run a Comp with the TDF Pirelli or run a TDF with the 812 Cup2R to see. Rather than look to Maranello’s official lap times of something being The King of the hill, so to speak, I look at them as a reflection of were the Factory sees its cars in relation to each other. The time improvement of the SF90XX over the SF90 is remarkable IMHO. Similar weight, similar power, possibly on similar tires, short track with technical corners. I think thats the proper comparison. To compare to the supercar, literally named The Ferrari, I would wait to see what comes next. And then we will be back to a discussion that at least partly comes down to tires. Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
The spreadsheet seems convincing and logical. It will be ‘polluted’ by the SF90’s AWD and hybrid thought. Instant massive shove and extremely high ‘motive’ traction. And as Caeruleus said, tyres make a huge difference. I reckon TDF and Comp should be quite close with equal tyres. Not much weight difference and not too much power difference. There is other tech that helps but I reckon the real difference is comfortably under a second with equivalent tyres.
Jerry, I completely agree with your explanation that tires make a huge difference and it is almost guaranteed that the time at Fiorano would have been reduced if the TDF had used the same tires as the 812 C. Regarding the SF 90 XX Stradale, apparently it was the first time Ferrari has taken race-style hardware and applied it to a road legal car—and kept it road legal which raises the question, is it really a road car? However, it seems to me that under equal conditions and with the same tires, the elementary rule continues to apply that the power to weight ratio affects performance and it could be summarized in one sentence. The heavier the load, the more power it takes to move it.
Of course it is not easy to get. Especially when horsepower stays approximately the same (as in SF90 vs LaF) and weight goes up by 15%. Improvements can only come from suspension technology, aerodynamic assistance and tyres. The SF90 does not have a downforce advantage over the LaF so the only things that can help it are suspension and tyres against a 200kg weight penalty. The SF90 XX will have an downforce advantage over the LaF, so it is easier to get a better lap time. Also to answer a fellow Fchat member who said tyres havent advanced that much in 10 years…I remember a test of the P1 at Anglesey, 10 years ago…On its standard tyres the P1 did a 1:12.6. On Trofeo R it pulled a 1:11.2…Same year different tyre… Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
I would add another factor helping the SF90 (any of them) is some drive on the front end, this would be extremely helpful putting the power down exiting some corners. If the replacement to the LaFerrari can do the time quoted, that would be astounding. I don’t think the XX is the first time Ferrari has put race car technology in a street car, I think that is what they always to, to one extent or another. But, the exterior changes on the XX, most notably the rear wing, do give a strong visual statement of intent. To bring it back to the 812 and its replacement, the engine is the first place, there are numerous race bred concepts and implementations, and we could go on. I always look forward to discovering what Ferrari comes up with on a new model. They are usually quite clever and innovative. Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
SF90 is 15% heavier than LaF - ? Care to share where you are finding the two cars weights to get the 15% It was about the XX vs LaF as there are two versions of SF90 you pivoted from XX Perhaps Day355 receives your "inside information" to post here - The XX LaF are same measurements but for height. - V8Turbo AWD vs V12 XX has 60+ more hp and SF90 also has more than LaF - not sure where you are going but these two cars are not in competition yet you and Day act as if someone is cross shopping. As far as next gen 812 - back to that topic because speculation vs reality is soon. Tires improve - that's how they sell tires just like Ferrari who improves their cars performance - I think we all got those two memos. The more rubber on the track equates to speed - AWD puts down more rubber as does AERO
I look at Maranello’s published times for where their cars were at the time they were tested- not necessarily where they are in relation to each other- as it would require periodic retesting on equal tires, weather conditions and drivers, and with some newer cars- updated software. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Jerry, when in 1960 at Le Mans a driver was concerned about the drag caused by the huge windscreen on the Ferrari 250 TR, in this context Enzo replied that Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. It was probably like that back then but nowadays as we know aerodynamics are crucial. When we compare the SF 90 Stradale with the SF 90 XX Stradale you already pointed that in Fiorano the lap time difference which is is 1'19.00 for the former and 1'17.31 for the latter. How is it possible that two cars with such a similar dry weight/Power ratio have performed so differently? The answer has to do with the aero setup of the SF 90 XX which delivers twice as much downforce as a regular SF 90 Stradale. Much of that is thanks to its gigantic fixed rear wing.
We are 4 weeks until the reveal of the F167, and somehow this thread has turned into SF90 vs. LaFerrari Fiorano lap times. Can we please get back to the intended topic. Thank you.
Bruh, we’re just killing time until the reveal at this point. We’ve given you 3 realistic sketches of the new car and forecast all of its specs, performance and Fiorano lap times. This is the best thread in cardom right now, what else do you want from us?
[ The rear wing of the XX doesn't work well enough on Fiorano to make a difference to the LF, because the track is too slow! High-speed apwells are required for the benefit to be substantial.I know him very very well. XX is an SF 90 with an outside marketing package, nothing more...
How about the color of the reveal car? White, yellow, red, blue or a grey/black? And if so what specific paint? Or will it be a new color? I vote for Canna de Fucile! Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
