1980 Ferrari 400 Auto (Carb) Chassis 27919

I spoke to Pete yesterday (the buyer) about my inspection Tuesday04/02. He's all in on the car which is great. Noted that (a) the left bank cylinder head gasket is bad, coolant crust all over the underside of the frame and motor, mud in the radiator (b) leather interior, excluding the headliner, not salvageable (c) I could not get the car to run but probably will run with a new set of spark plugs (d) solid underside with no apparent rust (e) bodywork not bad and probably some paint correction will fix it for being a "driver". He's excited about the car. I hope he posts some follow-up project threads about getting the car back on the road. Glad to see it isn't getting parted out.

 

Thanks for all the great intel, Mike, pulling that head should be fun.

I'm working on getting the car shipped to me and will then start diving in. I had a bit of a hair up that I might fly out, transport the car to my buddy's shop outside of Phoenix and try to get it running, but I'll just be patient and ship it here so I can throw it on my lift and walk away from it in pieces when I get frustrated and come back to it later .

Also trying to figure out how this car came originally - being an '80 it must be one of the last carb'd cars built and it doesn't look like trx tires started until '82....So swapped at some point in the '80s?

 

Be sure the shop disconnects the battery. The door switches don't work and aside from draining the battery, it may ruin the plastic lenses on the door lights. Bill at GT car parts has the switches and the door light lens assemblies. My bet is the switches just need to be cleaned. Not hard to do and check the grounds inside the plate where they are mounted.Good luck.

 

27919 is one of the last carb 400s but would have been completed mid-1979. TRX tyres were first fitted to the 400i about a year later, so yes your TRX wheels are not original.

 

A bit of a change of plans, I'm going to fly out and get the rear window replaced and do a few other things to get it ready to ship, it will take a little longer but I'll have a chance to check the car out and make sure the interior doesn't get further damaged and that things like the exhaust are properly hung etc. Will have an update in a couple of weeks when I get back.

 

Correct. The handling with the TRX was so much better that quite a few were upgraded. All the more true with the latest batch of TRX that Michelin issued recently.

 

Anybody know where to get a set of the TRX's? I'd like to have a set shipped out and get them mounted on the car while I'm there. I see Tirerack has the GT-B tires but they're shorter than the originals. Most other places are showing the TRX-B's out of stock in the stock size.

 

Longstone https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/

 

I'm in the US, so I think Coker is the analogue here. They're backordered there.

 

I'm in the US as well and I've ordered all my tires from them. Great prices, shipping, and they let you know when the freshest tires are available.

 

Picked the car up today and brought it to a buddy's shop. It's overall nicer than I was expecting. We also swung by GT car parts and grabbed a rear window, new plugs and oil filters.

The good: So far, everything is working that I've tried (even the clock!), we put new plugs in and got it fired up on what sounded like all 12 cylinders and had no strange noises, had good oil pressure, and didn't even smoke. The interior is better than expected, I gave it a coating of leatherique and it soaked in a good half a bottle. I covered the front seats with bags and will give it another coat before I leave.

The bad: The choke was not hooked up but each bank's carbs were connected to each other with what looked like chicken wire, so getting it fired up is a 3 man job, 1 on each bank manning the chokes and the 3rd starting it and manning the gas pedal. The gas smells a bit like kerosene so we're going to drain it and fill with fresh along with some seafoam. The engine wouldn't rev up and idle was too low, seems like the high idle isn't working, so we'll have to do some fiddling with the carbs (to include a proper choke cable). The radiator has a leak, looks like the lower valance was hit and repaired but caused a leak in the radiator, most likely why it was parked. No indication of a leaking head gasket so far, all plugs looked the same - fouled but no signs of oil or coolant - and pressure test immediately pinpointed the radiator issue. We'll JB weld it just to get it to hold coolant and then see if we can actually warm it up on fresh gas.

I'll update again after our adventures tomorrow!
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Choke removal is quite common, as one is more likely to flood the car when using it.

Kerozene in the tank, means someone added a dab of carburetor cleaner (mostly kerozene). So you can assume the carbs do want some maintenance.

Check for the timing marks on the camshafts, while you are there adjust chain tension, and do not forget to clean and lube the distributor(s) (if it/they contain/s two sets of points, just validare that the switch works properly). Remove and clean each of the carburetor jets. Finally, replacing the fuel filter as well as the in-tank mesh screen would be a good idea. On the carb it is different than the 400i, but there is such filtering device between the two tanks inside the tubing.

Do not jump start the car with a booster!

 

Skip the choke cable. Just wire the chokes open so you don't have to worry about them.
Glad you got it running. There isn't really a 'high idle' setting. The carb butterflies need to be set as follows:
1. back off the idle setting screws on each carb until the butterflied are completely closed.
2. turn the idle setting screws one full turn open. This will uncover the primary circuit hole. If you uncover the secondary hole, you'll never get the carbs set properly
3. adjust idle with the idle jets.... not easy to do without a vacuum gauge (although I have done it by ear before).
4. Don't mess with the air bleed screws. Most people just leave them closed.
If it won't rev, the carbs probably need a rebuild. You can remove the main jet without removing the carbs.... just take the cover with the thumbscrew off the top of the carb to expose the jets.
Let me know if I can help you, Pete.
Mike

 

Here's a great thread about carb settings.
https://forum.365gtc4.com/forum/main-forum/3184-carb-throttle-rod-setup

 

Day two and we got the car running much better after pulling all 24 jets and soaking and cleaning them while the glass guy was installing the rear glass. We also drained the remaining gas from the tank and refilled with fresh 93 and a can of seafoam and the more it runs the better it does, but we can't run for long with no coolant. It was able to drive itself off of the trailer for further work, though, the first time it's moved under it's own power since '97!

The engine now revs up without much issue and does not smoke or make any noise. We attempted to solder the cracked radiator tank (getting that valance off was a major pita) but it didn't hold, so then just covered it in a bunch of JB weld. It now just barely seeps so should be enough to get the car up to temp, but it won't hold any pressure. We fabricated a choke linkage with a bicycle brake cable, it definitely likes having the choke on to start when cold but it can quickly be turned off. Once it's been started it fires back up instantly. We should be able to get a video of it driving today, even if just slowly up and down the street.

We did discover that the driver side glass was down in the door... Completely shattered. Which is bad news in that it needs glass but good in that the regulator is intact and works. We fabricated a plastic replacement for transport, but I can't figure out how to install it, does one of the tracks come out of the door? We can bend the plastic to fit but obviously can't do that with glass.

We also put new hangers on the exhaust so it's not lying in the rear axle, that was fairly quick and easy. Not much to do today other than install the temporary transport window, put the valance back on and take it for a quick spin. I also treated all of the leather, took almost a full bottle if leatherique, and covered the front seats in plastic to let it soak in. Will get some pics out in the sun today.

 

I'll leave this here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xfaxRkAHwgCRZiza6

 

Great progress, Pete. Things are really going your way!

 

Some more pics:
Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

And a picture with the new owner.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I thought it'd be fun to go through Mike's initial (and excellent) Intel report after spending a couple of days with the car. I added pics and video for illustration. I'll also list the cost as things get repaired for folks to understand what it takes. My (and my buddies) labor is free, and I'm not counting the air fare, food, gas etc as it was a fun weekend vacation. My friend Robb (who I hadn't seen in almost 20 years!) provided transportation, shop and tools, my other friend Steve is a retired engineer I've known since I was a kid and is always up for car related adventures. Hanging with them was as much (or more) fun as getting the car.

Accurate, worst damage is the bottom side of the front valance which has had a not so great repair done but it's only visible if lying on the ground so NBD. A good buff and painless dent repair once over will have the car looking nice enough for me to enjoy.

Accurate, replaced exhaust donuts. Nothing concerning underneath except the front end damage, detailed below.

Accurate but damage was light based on front end with valance removed. It looks like it hit a curb, damaged the valence, radiator, condenser and could be what damaged the rim that's now the spare.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EhfPfMG8gXQqBy887

Leather was better than I expected, dirty for sure but all but the dash and slight tear in the ds bolster should clean up. The dash has some shrinkage. The interior soaked in almost a full bottle of leatherique. Will clean further when I get home.

Window was broken inside the door, most likely caused by a loose side impact door beam which was only fastened on one side. Fastened that and added a temporary transport window, regulator intact and works.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/AjiRRxRro6rnH2xK8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/JMAUJqrYHRDg9k616

After running the car, all gauges work including the clock. Not sure on accuracy but the alternator charges and the ammeter works as well.

For sure, rears appear to be '85 date code, fronts '94.

DS strut appears to be working ok, PS is not, so the hood doesn't quite release properly. Stays up fine if there's no wind (ie indoors). Put a clamp on one strut to make sure it stays up while working on it.

They came around with a fully charged battery.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QgKFGDCo2TKB6Mk4A

They work ok but not confidence inspiring, need a fluid flush.

Replacement from GT car parts, 10 minutes down the road from where the car was stored, $600. Install from prickly pear auto glass (thanks to Noah!) was $250. Will try to repair the trim as only one piece is damaged and car isn't otherwise perfect. There is a scratch on the corner of the trunk from whatever did the damage but not a big deal.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YBEQf4x1jwFS9drQA

All true, some pb blaster and they all were fine except the hood doesn't always release on both sides due to the blown strut so sometimes needs some help. PS door doesn't open as far as it should, looks like a missing bolt in the detent, easy fix.

Did not have this problem, all seemed to work fine - wheel also locks. Maybe the key wasn't rotated all the way back around to remove?

Radiator has a big crack in it, likely from what took out the front valance. We got it sealed enough to hold coolant somehow, but obviously a temporary fix. No other apparent leaks, checked via pressure tester and when warmed up.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/fCLr95qG1KCGzMAd9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4oWvRbjU1RYWyLeS8

They weren't bad but front carb jets were clogged and a few others didn't look great.
Cleaned all 24 jets, filled the carbs with carb cleaner and then siphoned them dry, emptied the tank, and filled with fresh gas plus seafoam. That fixed most of the issues. Needs a good tune still.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LmFoex3ufdZThPQz5
https://photos.app.goo.gl/sfvgmzmb7Maibeia9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zip3x8PFvyrJRAtbA
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ABD1b9bWUHRxnGFn6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/749UoRFGy819iBZ89

Just needed gas.

Yep, choke linkage was missing but we made one out of bicycle brake cable and some spare metal for a bracket, you can see it in this pic.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

Pretty much caught all the major stuff.

I think I'll be in it $10k to have it running and driving. That's with free labor. I'm in it around $2.5k so far, have a full engine gasket kit I haven't used yet but it has an oil leak in the front of the engine and cam covers weeping. Needs a radiator (or rebuild), DS window, tires and brake flush still. That should get it on the road, then can tackle things like a/c, some cosmetics etc.

Overall good PPI, Mike! Took us less than 48 hours from when we picked it up to when it was running around the side streets. Didn't get it up to speed due to tires but verified trans is working and it somehow held coolant. Really fun weekend, can't wait for it to get delivered to the east coast so I can work on it in my shop.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/b7E3Pj3uvuiE7oS67

 

Great write-up, Pete. I am glad to see the progress made and was happy to help out. IMHO you did well buying this car.... it's much better than I initially thought. You'll have a good driver when you get it home. Looks like all the crusty stuff on the left side of the frame is indeed coolant from the the damaged radiator. If you can, take a look behind the headers on the left side to confirm the head gasket is intact. That side is usually the one that leaks if the motor overheats.
Good luck and keep us posted as the adventure continues.
Mike

 

I doubt the headgasket is gone: either the engine sustains the heat, or the heads start to crack.

That's a car that obviously requires some love, but if his time is free he can spend the required time to restore its former glory, Hopefully the engine internals are in better shape than the cosmetics.

It does sound very rough though. These engines are normally super smooth: my only clicking sound is coming from the alternator belt.

I would drop the camcovers and adjust timing, fully clean the carburetors and lube the distributor. New ignition leads, hotter spark plugs (BP6ES) properly gapped, new colhine hoses all around.

While the covers are out, some wrinckle paint? A generous amount of gasoil would help to clean this engine bay...

 

That noise was picked up oddly with my glasses, it did not sound bad in person. It was a little tappety once hot, but valve adjustment and properly adjusted carbs will be a must - we just got the carbs to where it would idle and rev up but it's got a bog off idle, returns to idle slowly etc - most likely because its past the idle passage transition. I did not do a full tune as that wasn't the priority but will tackle that once it's in my shop.

If you watch that last video, it was running pretty smoothly once moving and felt like all or most of the horses were there - the engine was pretty peppy. I'm looking into getting the engine bay top and bottom dry ice cleaned to get a clean starting point as it's really grimy and having cleaned up similar or worse, it's a big job and makes a big mess. Tracking leaks will be a lot easier with a clean starting point as well.

 

The 400 is finally on it's way to the east coast, should be here Monday!
Image Unavailable, Please Login