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B-52

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by Bob Parks, Jun 11, 2008.

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  1. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran

    CAP/CIC would have some splainin' to do missing that pass.
     
  2. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2003
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    The fuselage angle ain't got nuthin to do with flying the wing straight and level. The Ford Tri Motor had a Goetingen 106 airfoil that had to be set at a NEGATIVE 3 or 4 deg. angle of incidence so that the fuselage flew at a near level attitiude. The airfoil had a great lift coefficient and had to be depressed to kill some of it. This can be seen by looking at photos of a Tri Motor and compare the lack of parallelism between the window belt and the lower surface of the wing. In the jig position, the B-52 wing twists from a positive 7.5 Deg. at the root to a minus 2 deg. at the tip. level flight is an angle somewhere in between in between the two angles. If my memory serves me, the B-52 wing has something in the neighborhood of 5 or 6 different airfoils from root to tip.
     
  3. Arvin Grajau

    Arvin Grajau Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 7, 2006
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    fantastic.
    Does anyone have any inside photos.
     
  4. MarkPDX

    MarkPDX F1 World Champ
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    Apr 21, 2003
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    #29 MarkPDX, Nov 18, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Got passed by a couple of B-52s going the other way this morning. Wouldn't have even noticed them but you don't see contrails in formation very often. We were down at FL200 and it was only with a big camera lens that I could identify them. Nice to see :)
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  5. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I envy you at being able to see a couple of B-52's passing as they did. I can still remember my awe and disbelief at seeing the B-52 mock up my first time when I was working at Boeing in 1951. I did many drawings to show the shop types how to build the B-52 and it seems like a weird dream to see that airplane still in the inventory and programmed to continue for many years to come. I honestly believe that it will outlast me and I'm 83 now. Incredible.
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  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Bob- You Boeing engineers did a great job using slide-rules and engineering rules of thumb. The BUFF will never wear out.

    The new tools used now allow engineers to get too close to theoretical minimums on loads and stresses. Aircraft designed now will wear out because we no longer allow the reasonable margins of the good old days. Saves money, they say. Not sure that is true when you have to do retrofits and major structure replacements to keep them flying.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  7. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Great photo Mark........!!!
     
  8. PlaneGuy

    PlaneGuy Rookie

    Oct 29, 2009
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    I remember being told that the purpose of the high angle of incidence was so that at high altitude the fuselage would be nearly level to make a safe bomb drop from the bay. You would know better than me though. Something to do with the airflow over the fuselage.
     
  9. 1ual777

    1ual777 F1 Rookie

    Mar 21, 2006
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    That was my thought exactly. As for the Buff never wearing out, sort of like the DC-3? I saw an interview once with one of the old engineers who helped design it. He said they didn't know what stress levels were. They just kept putting weights on the wing and whenever it broke, that was the level. His words were, "We over built the thing." Must have 'cause it is still flying.
     
  10. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Actually, the high angle of incidence on the inboard wing was to enable the B-52 to get off the ground. This airplane cannot be rotated due to the extreme aft location of the rear main landing gear so the wing had to levitate it off the runway. The CG is somewhere near the half way point between the forward and aft main landing gear, just like a freight car with the load between the wheels. The nose and tail literally hang from each end...hence the wrinkles in the skin.. The fuselage is built around four huge aluminum I beams, no stringers over the frames, just machined skin panels.
    The wings were built for smooth high altitude flight and when the Buff was used for low level operations the wing skins started to fatigue and crack from the sharp gust loads encountered there. So many B-52's had to be re-skinned.
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  11. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    But it's about time they put new engines on it. There has been talk for years about replacing the eight TF33s with four CF6s or some similar high-bypass turbofan, similar to the ones now being fitted to the C-5Ms. I wonder if and when it will really happen.
     
  12. zygomatic

    zygomatic F1 Veteran
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    I grew up around B-52s, and remember very fondly going to see one (and actually clamber around inside!) when I was about 8. I asked if I could get a ride... but no joy. Still, for a kid interested in flying, hanging out with the pilots and crew was nothing short of paradise.

    Watching the -52 take off that day, I was awestruck. And about knocked over by the soundwave as the B-52 passed overhead.


    All of which reminds me of my favorite BUFF joke:

    A F-16 driver contacted ATC for a priority landing because his single-engine jet fighter was running "a bit peaked." ATC told the fighter jock that he was number two behind a B-52 that had one shut down.

    "Ah," the pilot remarked, "the dreaded seven-engine approach!"
     
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  13. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I got to thinking about the problems with tandem geared airplanes. The B-47 was designed to have a built-in angle of attack by virtue of the LG layout that established a nose up attitude and a take off right off the runway. BUT, the problems with that set up was after landing and the wing was still lifting a bit and there wasn't enough weight on the wheels to get effective braking. The drogue chute was deployed on final so that they could make an approach with 60% power in case they had to make a go-around and that eliminated the slow spool up delay. Most of the early gas turbines had acceleration limiters to prevent blow torching the engines.
    So, the B-52 had a horizontal fuselage and an angled wing so that it could levitate on take off. On landing they had a drag chute to help with the braking and also ground braking spoilers to unload the wing.
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  14. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Having helped in design studies on the 767 and 747 to put larger engines on them I can say that the problems involved are extensive. Structural beef up, aerodynamic effects from airflow changes, flutter considerations and damping changes, and systems rework are a few of the design problems. Then I remember that the airforce hates to change something that has been serving well for 50 years...inventory, training, retraining, support equipment to be purchased, etc. Kinda like stopping a glacier.
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  15. dmaxx3500

    dmaxx3500 Formula 3

    Jul 19, 2008
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    if you ever get back to the midwest,try going to ''rantoul'' air force base muesem,about 50 miles south of chicago on i-57,,they have a trainer cockpit you can go into,real small inside
     
  16. Arvin Grajau

    Arvin Grajau Seven Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 7, 2006
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    One did a fly over and a hard turn one year at the GP,awesome sight,the crowd enjoyed it more then the car racing.
     
  17. Killing Time

    Killing Time Formula Junior

    Sep 5, 2008
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    Los Angeles
    Saw a B52 taking off out of Honolulu late in the afternoon. First time for me in this state. Was sitting on a deck in Waikiki and what caught my eye was the nose down attitude of the fuselage...and then of course the noise.
     
  18. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    CNN flew on a 30+ hour mission in a B-52. Unfunny enough they had an engine go out plus a gear not come down. I wonder if that many problems is typical or just bad luck first time media has ever gone on a flight like this.

     
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  19. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    On those really long missions, the engines tend to be reaching a limit on oil consumption and losing one for low oil is not a great surprise. Happened on Secret Squirrel, too, even though those were B-52Gs.
     
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